hdrmd Posted February 6, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 6, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Without any of the rancor exhibited so far, I would comment on the photo this way: it is not sharp, the noise is excessive, and it is not exceptional action. Again, no offense meant, this photo probably means a lot only to the parents of the children, and that cannot be measured. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 6, 2008 Posted February 6, 2008 Hi hdrmd, Take a look here M8 does basketball (at iso 2500). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
daveco Posted February 6, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 6, 2008 I've got no problem with the image, and with the M8 you always have the option to mount strobes and using pw's increase your depth of field and shoot with these. If I get the chance to shoot some hockey again, I will probably switch to the M8 for a few shots with the Alien Bee strobes just to see what I get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonWeston Posted February 6, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 6, 2008 I shoot high school basketball for the last three years with a mix of gear, Canon and Nikon. I also have an M8. I do not think this shot is sooo bad at all. The more vocal posters, have you ever shot in the light of a gym? It is generally horrible, both in quality or amount or both, usually. The only issue I have is color or WB which can be fixed for the most part. I choose either C or N for this kind of work, but I would say that once you start using longer fast glass without flash, things become very difficult to obtain really clean images. Some gyms almost impossible. Have not shot with a D3, only a D300 which it totally different and far noisier. Biggest issues are stopping action of this kind, I find I need the best AF and still have a low keep rate. Low keep rate for large prints, say 20x30 or larger. No one was arguing, not the OP, that a D3 might be better. BTW, I shoot only fast primes too not zooms, just not fast enough, really need about f2. Much more and just impossible with any of the gear to get a high enough shutter speed. I shoot in manual mode at 1/500 at f2 or f1.8 and let auto Iso do its thing. Wider lenses may give you a faster shutter speed, but then DOF is too thin. No I would pick an M8 as my first choice for this type of work but also note you are looking at a very low rez jpeg on a monitor, that does not help the situation either. Just say you need to know what the circumstances are.... JMO... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 6, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 6, 2008 I'm just interested in Mark's statement that a D3 would do better under these circumstances, and I ask D3 owners to show this. Thanks, Peter The D3's high ISO capability represents a paradigm shift to Nikon users. Coupled with a high speed Nikkor - 85/1.4 or 135/2.0 - it would be an impressive combination. From what I've seen of the D3 files I've shot at ISO 1000, it's simply a different ballgame now. There are certainly examples on the web of the D3's capability...it's something Leica should be aiming for at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonWeston Posted February 6, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 6, 2008 The D3's high ISO capability represents a paradigm shift to Nikon users. Coupled with a high speed Nikkor - 85/1.4 or 135/2.0 - it would be an impressive combination. From what I've seen of the D3 files I've shot at ISO 1000, it's simply a different ballgame now. There are certainly examples on the web of the D3's capability...it's something Leica should be aiming for at this point. Do you think as a D3 user that the AF is also significantly better then previous models or D300, i.e. more accurate with fast lenses, or is it just the hhigh ISO ability of the D3 alone and the associated higher shutter speeds that account for sharper images from the D3. Cause I find that really fast lenses alone have their own issues, very thin DOF. I think being able to use the D3 at high ISOs would make for using f2.8 lenses, either prime or zoom appear sharper due to gains in DOF also. Would you agree with that idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpierce Posted February 6, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 6, 2008 A low light D3 example is below: 1/25 sec, f/3.2, 70mm (24-70lens), -.67bias, in camera jpg, ISO at High .7 Very dim lighting, took a few minutes for eyes to adjust. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/44645-m8-does-basketball-at-iso-2500/?do=findComment&comment=475381'>More sharing options...
plasticman Posted February 6, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 6, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not a highschool gym, but this page showcases some D3 sports shots. Not my kind of camera, but there seems to be no point in denying the leap in technology that Nikon have managed with the D3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 6, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 6, 2008 All one needs to do is go to your local dealer and take a snap at high iso with the D3 (or even D300 for that matter). It does eat the Leica at 800 and above for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I noticed a shooter at the State of the Union address following around Bush with one as well as at the Superbowl. It is the new game in town. No M8s in sight. As far as the original shot in this thread I have to say I've seen better with a 5mp p&s. I think a far more interesting approach would have been a behind the scenes reportage style of the team on the sidelines etc. Maybe converted to b&w. This is where the Leica best proves itself. This photo is poor justification for $8K worth of kit imo. Sorry. Better to post in photo section next time (or as Imants so well put it keep it for the family album). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted February 6, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 6, 2008 Not a highschool gym, but this page showcases some D3 sports shots. Not my kind of camera, but there seems to be no point in denying the leap in technology that Nikon have managed with the D3. I just took a look at that site and was bowled over. I used to do some sports photography back in the stone age and know how difficult it is. The quality of these shots at ISO 6400 are absolutely incredible. I love my M8, but were I to get back into sports photography I'd grab a D3 (if I could afford one). Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 6, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 6, 2008 Before concluding that the M8 isn't suitable for this kind of photography, have a look at Rob Stevens' photos on this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/44172-giving-up-my-noctilux-4.html While it is very true that the M8 can't match the high ISO performance of the D3, it can still, in the right hands, produce great images in almost any situation. A lot of this has to do with the photographer and his/her skill level as much as the kind of camera used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 6, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 6, 2008 I certainly agree Robert's images are in a different league - I imagine he preset focus and judged his moment when to shoot but difficult to do and Robert has much more shooting talent than I do. For lesser mortals, I think the combination of autofocus tracking, high ISO, VR and a monopod and high frame rate will all help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 6, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 6, 2008 For lesser mortals, I think the combination of autofocus tracking, high ISO, VR and a monopod and high frame rate will all help. No doubt about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted February 6, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 6, 2008 I certainly agree Robert's images are in a different league - I imagine he preset focus and judged his moment when to shoot but difficult to do and . I generally follow focus. In the original thread with these pictures, I posted a series of frames to illustrate that I follow focus. The last three are a sequence of three frames in a row. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 6, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 6, 2008 Nice. It also seems that you are working reasonably close on the sidelines, so you're in medium wide-angle country, not long zoom. And the court lighting looks about two stops stronger than the nasty gyms where the first two pictures on page 1 were taken. What lens, ISO and shutter speed were you using for these examples? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 6, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 6, 2008 What lens, ISO and shutter speed were you using for these examples? scott You're going to die when you hear the answer about the lens and aperture. I'll let Rob tell you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 6, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 6, 2008 Follow focus? Makes the results all the more impressive then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 6, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 6, 2008 The EXIF for the series just above is revealing. 35/2.0 lens, ISO 640 and 1/750 sec, with exposure under manual control. No flash used, although the camera was set up for fill flash. That's consistent with my guess that a pro-grade arena has two stops more light available. Using a fast prime to get all the shutter speed you can, and having the timing to anticipate the action really pays dividends, doesn't it. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted February 6, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 6, 2008 The EXIF for the series just above is revealing. 35/2.0 lens, ISO 640 and 1/750 sec, with exposure under manual control. No flash used, although the camera was set up for fill flash. That's consistent with my guess that a pro-grade arena has two stops more light available. Using a fast prime to get all the shutter speed you can, and having the timing to anticipate the action really pays dividends, doesn't it. scott It was with the 35mm Summicron, while the rest posted in the linked thread were with the Noctilux. Typical arena lighting is 1/500th at f2.8 and 800iso. The lights in this place a getting old and may be slightly less than that. Here is the Noctilux follow focusing. I was probably shooting at f1.8 looking at the 1/1000th shutter speed. Here I would have focused on the net and then tweaked it out a bit to get the player. I was also shooting the DMr, so the M8 was for when the players got close and I made sure the lens was left at a preset spot so I could pick the camera up quickly as they came to the net. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayerische Posted February 6, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 6, 2008 Really nice shots Robert! Rob, have you seen the results of a Canon or Nikon in the similar situation of your posted pic? I'm not going to judge jour picture from a artistic point of view, but rather from a technical point of view. If I saw that pic printed or online anywhere, I would think NOKIA. It's as good as a Nokia phone with a camera built-in. Not M8. We can easily agree that the M8 is close to useless at ISO 2500. Due to it's CCD instead of a CMOS sensor. The quality that is, not the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted February 7, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 7, 2008 This one is at 1/30 s, iso1250 and -1/3 ev. Maybe it depends on your point of reference, but I have never experienced any camera before that allows such low light photography. OK so you get some motion blur & digital noise but nevertheless. Also I have the distinct impression that the latest firmware allows -1 ev which means that our little toy running at iso 2500 in fact can be pushed to iso 5000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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