SL3-S for sports...viewfinder/shutter delay and AF

[tom0511]

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I now have used the SL3-S for handball game. together with a Sigma sports 70200/2.8.

I wanted to share my experience and see if others have made same experience:

I worked with C-AF, 7fms per second and later 30 pms per sec.

first annoying thing: every time I switch the camera on I get this "no credential rec at this setting" which I first have to click ok before I can do anything else. I understand that now and I do not want to have this step every time I should at a fast frame rate!

The AF felt fine, the viewfinder looked pretty sharp, but after the first few shots I realized something:

I felt I pressed the shutter early enough to catch a throw/jump shot, but the first image already seemed a short moment too late.

My speculation is that there is a small time gap/delay between the action happening and what I see in the viewfinder which can lead to the fact , that I press the viewfinder for a quick moment too late.

I the changed my behavior and started to press the shutter a moment before I was expecting a throw and that worked better. I tried to find out if it was a difference between the electronic shutter and the mechanical, but I am not able to say if either mode worked better or worse.

Overall I got some acceptable shots, but it seems much easier and a quite a bit more reliable to catch shots with the Canon which I usually have used for handball/sports.

The AF of SL3-s has become better, the viewfinder as well, but there seems to be a (very short) viewfinder delay/ or shutter delay (I am not sure here, I think the first).

Also with the R3 you can use face detection and choose a certain area in the viewfinder anyways. This helps a lot to catch the right player and get the face sharp.

In case of SL3-s I watched the right player, but not always the face/eyes.

I read that some newer sports cameras even have AI for basketball or football which helps to focus on the right player. And then you can choose "pre-shooting" with half pressed shutter, which also should help. to get the shot even if you press the shutter slightly too late.

I got the SL3-S because I wanted to get away from an additional system for sports (My Canon).

But this first check was not so successful.

My main complain is the slight delay. Do others here can share there experience of using the SL3-S for sports?

I know, its not a Z9 or R1, but I expected it to come a little closer. 

[hoolyproductions]

I almost never shoot sports, but did give it a try recently for one of my daughter's roller derby matches: 

 

[LocalHero1953]

Not sports but dance. My experience is with the SL2-S, though I have recently switched to the SL3-S. I suspect the same will apply.

IMO the problem with all EVFs is not resolution, refresh rate or colour fidelity, but the lag from the action. It has got better as I have progressed from M240+visoflex, CL, SL, SL2-S, but remains something I have to make allowances for.

For dance my aim is to catch a leap as the dancer is rising, not coming down, and to catch the moment in a pose when the limbs and fingers are perfectly outstretched. I use the fastest fps rate with mechanical shutter and AFc, which I find adequate - 30fps would be overkill as well as problematic with rolling shutter.

I start the burst before the leap starts or before I expect the pose, but unless it is a rehearsal with lots of repetitions, I can't always anticipate correctly. The worst case scenario is where I shoot a burst too early, and then find the camera is emptying the buffer just when I want to take another sequence.

I haven't noticed a big problem with focusing. I'm using face recognition and AFc, and normally this works. Leaps usually look best side on anyway (i.e. the distance doesn't change so much).

They repeated these leaps in rehearsal so many times that anticipation was not a problem, but I was still able to focus using just AFs and in single shot with the SL2-S.

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Edited yesterday at 09:20 AM by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

I imagine that Panasonic's pre-release and hi-speed bursts would solve these problems. 

[Luke_Miller]

I discovered this lag between reality and EVF image with my first mirrorless camera many years ago.  With practice I found that with both eyes open I could compose using the image in the EVF and release the shutter using the the realtime view of the subject from my other eye.  It's easier than it sounds. While the lag times are much reduced with modern EVF cameras this technique may still be useful.

[jaapv]

The Digilux2 had a lag of about one second. Still I managaged some photographs of kids on a swing The hit rate was about 10% as I recall. 

[tom0511]

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I still love the SL system but I really wish Leica would present a real sports camera. A sensor with a really fast read out might be the solution.

I guess it would help to a) reduce viewfinder lag b) to improve AF even further.

Pre-capture would be a real benefit. Might it be possible via firmware for the SL3-s???? this would be a dream!

 

 

[LD_50]

None of the SL series cameras are sports cameras for sure. They won’t compete with Canon, Nikon, or Sony’s best. 

That said, I have not experienced an issue with lag with the SL3-S in any way that caused me to miss shots. For high frame rate shooting I will always start a little early to try to get a few frames before/after the exact moment. That hasn’t changed with Leica versus my old Nikon gear but as others have noted the blackout free EVFs, better AF, pre-burst recording, etc of other systems make this easier. 

If you shut off content credentials you won’t get the message anymore. It provides the message with the content credentials on and higher frame rate shooting. 

[helged]

11 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I still love the SL system but I really wish Leica would present a real sports camera. A sensor with a really fast read out might be the solution.

I guess it would help to a) reduce viewfinder lag b) to improve AF even further.

Pre-capture would be a real benefit. Might it be possible via firmware for the SL3-s???? this would be a dream!

 

 

Quite some of the tech 'goodies' tickle in from Panasonic. Re top sport FF body in L-mount, at present, I believe Lumix S1ii with it's 24 mp, partially stacked BSI sensor, is the closest you get:

No EVF blackout, pre-capture up to 1.5 sec, up to 70 fps w/electronic shutter (10 fps m/mechanical shutter), etc.

But the shutter read-out speed is still on the slow side with 14.5 ms. At sub 10 ms, the electronic shutter can be used for most applications, not to mention sub 4 ms where the top CanNikSon-players are at present. 

Leica will eventually come with faster sensors. Leica SL3-S has a readout speed of about 20 ms, which is too slow for eg birds in flight.

Listing of rolling shutter speeds: https://horshack-dpreview.github.io/RollingShutter/ 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by helged