Survey: Leica M EV1 – Future or mistake?

[LUF Admin]

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Leica unveiled the Leica M EV1 last week, and since then, discussions have been heating up on the Leica forum. The Leica M EV1 is the first camera in the M system to dispense with the classic rangefinder and rely entirely on an electronic viewfinder (EVF).

To get an overview of what you, our customers, think about this development, we have created a short survey for you:

• How interested are you personally in this camera?
• What do you think of Leica's decision to dispense with the optical rangefinder for the first time with the M EV1?

Please vote above and feel free to comment below!

Thank you!
Andreas

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[adan]

I can't see a wording choice for Question 2 that reflects my thoughts on Leica's decision.

Options 1, 2, 4,and 5 definitely do not reflect my thinking - as far as I am concerned, it is none of the following: "the future, a good alternative, risky, or a wrong signal."

But Option 3 I cannot select because it incorporates two separate ideas in one response, and I cannot agree with both parts.

It also seems more in line with the first question - user interest in the EV1 itself. Just a rephrasing of "An interesting approach, but not for me."

it does not actually address Leica's decision-making.

If I could answer Question 2 without prompting, I would say something like:

"It is a worthwhile experiment, regardless of whether I would or would not get one myself."

As it is, the survey will not allow me to respond at all. Sorry!

Edited 4 hours ago by adan

[Alberti]

I am interested to give my feedback on how I have (used)  M-lenses on a CL, or L-mount with adapter – while some even use Sony-A or FujiGFX100 – and in that perspective, how I look at it. 

[SrMi]

4 minutes ago, Alberti said:

I am interested to give my feedback on how I have (used)  M-lenses on a CL, or L-mount with adapter – while some even use Sony-A or FujiGFX100 – and in that perspective, how I look at it. 

I would start a new thread in the L mount subforum, and write up your experience.

[Carrot]

Options 4 & 5 in Question 1 are essentially the same, other than presumably those clicking 5 have no interest in Leica SL or Q either, but knowing that probably isn't the purpose of the survey?

[pascal_meheut]

This is not an interesting survey. To me, the subject is not the EVF, it is the current implementation: no IBIS, inefficient focusing aids when competitors have implemented new ideas, etc.
My dream camera would be something the size of a Sony A7C with a better EVF, IBIS, Leica ergonomics, Nikon ZF or Canon RF focusing aid. Even better would be an hybrid viewfinder but I know this is not that simple. Another nice option would be a mount allowing a R adapter with auto diaphragm and either a normal M adapter or something like the TechArt.
In short, anything with added value, not just an EVF in a M11 body, i.e. an incremental improvement over the Visoflex. And nothing justifies the price point and this is a faithful Leica customers with decades of history buying their products brand new.

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

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No interest from me.  I buy cars for less money.  

[lct]

Good questions and well posed IMHO👍 My answers were 1.1 and 2.2. Will be interesting to see how many people are interested.

[Pixeleater]

I am interested, however, on the sideline until the EV has more effective focus aids i.e. focus confirmation. Hoping this can be implemented via a firmware update.

[aj37]

I have too much experience using (or trying to use) M-mount lenses on other EVF cameras to be interested in this right now -- it's a slow, frustrating process, much like trying to focus an early-1950s SLR with a manual diaphragm and a plain groundless screen. A future model with significantly upgraded electronic focusing aids (think Nikon Zf) might be persuasive, but the concept isn't there yet.

However, the key fact here is that my opinion doesn't matter a whit. Experienced rangefinder-camera users (of whom you won't find many among mainstream photo-bloggers and YouTube influencers) know that rangefinder focusing is much faster and more positive than unaided EVF focusing once you've invested the time and effort to master it. However, "time" and "effort" are things that the highly-privileged folks who habitually buy every new M-mount Leica don't feel they should have to bother with, and Leica achieves its ever-soaring financial results by catering to the whims of these lovely people. So EVF M-mount cameras are here to stay, and the best we can hope for is that Leica keeps trying to improve them.

[rjhringmer]

I do a lot of various format film copying using a copystand and dedicated lightbox on a darkroom bench. The new M EVF1 offers no easy way of using my optical or electronic Visoflex attachments to perform camera scans; not even a flip screen.

[Edward Schwartzreich]

I was a beta tester.  The camera is good at what it is supposed to do, but for me, almost entirely superfluous.   I have a 20-year old Sony A7-R which will do the same thing, less well but adequately.  

The only advantages of this camera, for me, would be hitting focus with a Noctilux, hitting focus’s in close up or with long tele’s.   Also, being able to look through the viewfinder for a picture at dusk and being able to close down the diaphragm and actually see the result.  So if you want a twilight image, you can see exactly what you’ve got.   But M10s and M11s can do this with a Viso attached.

If M lenses accepted autofocus, if the camera had IBIS, then maybe.

But I can see this as a very popular item for people whose eyesight won’t allow them to do rangefinder adequately, or who came from SLRs or other cameras with an EV and who own M lenses. 

For me, the use of rangefinder Ms is instinctive and this is a distraction. 

[delta100]

Yes, I agree with Edward.

[bobtodrick]

I find some of the responses hilarious.

Leica is slammed when they try something new because it is not in keeping with the Leica mystique.

Leica is slammed because they are stuck in the past and don't compete with the new offerings from Sony, etc.

 

[ausdlk]

wouldn't use it if it was given to me.

[LBJ2]

"An interesting approach, but not for me personally."

"Good alternative to the rangefinder, more choice doesn't hurt."

These survey responses pretty much reflect my initial reaction the M EV1. I see the EV1 as another interesting and useful M11 variant to be added to the product series such at the M11-M, M11-D. I do however think the EV1 has the potential to sell at a greater volume than -M or -D due to need rather than artistic preferences. Just my guess.

Also, it seems Leica was certain the M EV1 would be polarizing due to the traditional M camera RF vs EVF debate. So far I see very little of that type of debate going on at the moment. Surprisingly seems to me much more forum-griping about lack of Nikon style manual focus aids. I don't know where these expectations came from, but probably feedback the EV1 Product Manager should be made aware of if not already. 

Congratulations to Leica for a very bold move! I like what Leica have done here, both in spirit and acknowledgment of customer need. 

Edited 15 minutes ago by LBJ2

[budrichard]

I will eventually replace my M3, M6, two M7’s and an M-E with this camera but want to have the ‘bugs’ shaken out so to speak and the ‘Red’ Dot removed.

I think Leica is at a watershed and the problem for the M system is the Mount. It cannot accept auto focus and auto aperture contacts while keeping the usage of the original M mount lenses.

Nikon realized the problem and developed the Z Mount and I can tell you personally, the Z Mount works very well but at a cost in size of the Zoom lenses. There are a number of small Z mount lenses that do very well with a smaller form factor.

I do not want a Leica Q with a fixed mount lens.

So sell me an M style EV camera with interchangeable auto focus/auto aperture lenses.

BTW, the Nikon Z has a feature using the electronic shutter that is completely ’Silent’!

-Richard

 

[dante]

These choices really don't capture what I think here:

1. An EVF eliminates some problems with wides (accessory finders to see the whole view, leveling, etc.). 
2. Generally, the clarity of a good EVF can be better than a hybrid optical/EVF finder.
3. If this had advanced focus aids, like the quasi-rangefinder functionality of Fuji EVFs (the artificial split-image powered by phase-detect pixels on the sensor), the M11-EV1 would be great. I saw this in the various rumor sites, but it isn't there in the finished product, unless it's going to be a firmware update.
4. If you are going to update the firmware to include this, do it now.

D

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[otto.f]

2 minutes ago, budrichard said:

I will eventually replace my M3, M6, two M7’s and an M-E with this camera but want to have the ‘bugs’ shaken out so to speak and the ‘Red’ Dot removed.

I think Leica is at a watershed and the problem for the M system is the Mount. It cannot accept auto focus and auto aperture contacts while keeping the usage of the original M mount lenses.

Nikon realized the problem and developed the Z Mount and I can tell you personally, the Z Mount works very well but at a cost in size of the Zoom lenses. There are a number of small Z mount lenses that do very well with a smaller form factor.

I do not want a Leica Q with a fixed mount lens.

So sell me an M style EV camera with interchangeable auto focus/auto aperture lenses.

BTW, the Nikon Z has a feature using the electronic shutter that is completely ’Silent’!

-Richard

 

Plus image stabilization, even for Leica M lenses (with adapter)

[FrozenInTime]

I do want to get to a store and try one out; that will be a three hour each way drive ; I might yet be persuaded. 

A -S sports version would have been an instant yes;  e.g. 24 Mpixels and the processing power for subject/eye detection and MF focus confirmation, so that the punch in magnification step was not always necessary. I don't mind if the body outline changes in future versions e.g. to allow more than +2 diopter correction, but keep it M and smaller than a SL.