Classic M vs. M EV1 - Focus Accuracy & Speed

[Ochastan]

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So I spent 2 hours comparing the M11 and EV1 side-by-side in daylight and low light, with multiple lenses, different focal and shooting distances, etc. For background, I'm a former pro photographer (New York Times, French National Geographic, etc.) having shot on M for 25 years (M3, M6, M7, M10M today). Here is the plain truth.

There is zero comparison between the two unfortunately. This is not a transition for Leica shooters but a radical change. The EV1 requires learning a new way to focus which for me ended up being a new shooting sequence. With the M, it's usually take a reading to meter, half press to lock my reading, focus/compose at same time and shoot. With the EV1, it became compose, focus with magnification 1.8x + low focus peaking, half press to go back to composition or just shoot depending on the scene. I don't feel I have mastered that sequence nor am I convinced that it is the right one either. It could be meter, focus on key subject and compose/shoot, or meter, compose, focus—I don't know yet. The bottom line is that I did get critical focus in each case but not sure it was better or faster than with the M11. However, it does win on flat scenes where the RF patch does not have much to use to focus.

I personally loved the camera and loved the fact that, obviously, I can use my Tri-elmar, 28, etc native. And the built-in diopter and "looks" (I mainly shoot in B&W) were big wins.

A few things that really were problematic for me. I tried to shoot someone walking while using magnification, and it was quite jittery. Unfortunately, I would not just rely on focus peaking. The magnification is what does the heavy lift and focus peaking (at shallow apertures) is only there to provide fine tuning by looking at how much of the peaking is reinforced. This is where the Q3 wins since the AF does not really require magnification or focus peaking but that's an entirely different animal with the single lens.

In the end, I felt very conflicted and bought neither the EV1 nor the M11. I'm trying to get a loaner and test the EV1 in the field for a week later this month so I can report back. Otherwise it will be the M11 since the patch is fast and works 80-90% of the time and the new Visoflex (whatever it's called) for the ultra wide, static subjects, etc.

Edited December 4 by Ochastan

[newtoleica]

6 hours ago, Ochastan said:

In the end, I felt very conflicted and bought neither the EV1 nor the M11. I'm trying to get a loaner and test the EV1 in the field for a week later this month so I can report back. Otherwise it will be the M11 since the patch is fast and works 80-90% of the time and the new Visoflex (whatever it's called) for the ultra wide, static subjects, etc.

That was my view as well after trying the Ev1 out. I bought a lightly used M11-D and a Visioflex. The M system excels as a fast street camera with moderate focal lengths and with practice becomes as instant as AF but more controllable. The lack of an RF patch or electronic equivalent slows the whole thing down. I can see the EV being good for slow photography with very wide or longer lenses but there are other systems for that that are probably better suited…

[Ochastan]

4 hours ago, newtoleica said:

That was my view as well after trying the Ev1 out. I bought a lightly used M11-D and a Visioflex. The M system excels as a fast street camera with moderate focal lengths and with practice becomes as instant as AF but more controllable. The lack of an RF patch or electronic equivalent slows the whole thing down. I can see the EV being good for slow photography with very wide or longer lenses but there are other systems for that that are probably better suited…

Yes. Buy a Hasselblad X2D if you want to do “slow” photography 😉

[Alberti]

On 10/26/2025 at 9:02 PM, jjroroek said:

whats wrong about a rubber woman. ?

Well, she may be hard to focus on . . .

[jaapv]

On 11/1/2025 at 8:53 PM, SrMi said:

I do not think focus peaking can accurately show you DOF. What CoC is focus peaking using?

It is using edge contrast not CoC and you can set the sensitivity to simulate various DOF levels. Agree on using it like DOF for accuracy. 

[algrove]

On 10/28/2025 at 6:52 PM, maidenfan84 said:

Honestly, I’m still a little confused on this focusing how it works. Will it still have a focus patch like a traditional rangefinder where the two images need to align or is it gonna be more like a modern camera for the whole picture is either in focus or out of focus?

If you are talking about the EV1, then no focus patch since it a simple EVF only. It is not the whole picture in focus or out of focus since you can still focus precisely on one point in the image and use your stop to determine how great the depth of focus will be.

[algrove]

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On 10/29/2025 at 6:03 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Each to their own but I'm not having issues focusing the EV1. I have it for the times where focusing with an RF is a pian. The 135 telyt, 50mm f1.0 etc. But I have also tried it with my more regular lenses and it's fine. I am quicker with the RF for 35 and 50mm lenses with tabs but the rest are a wash.

I did spend some time playing with the settings. Mostly I've settled on peaking only set to blue and low intensity.  much of the time I can focus quite well with no aids and this is better than setting the peaking to high for me. I didn't like the red for peaking. I have set the selector lever to push for magnification and pull to enable/disable peaking. I'm currently experimenting with setting another view profile for situations where the blue/low isn't appropriate.

Not everyone gets on with EVF's but so far no issues for me after I took the time to experiment with set up. With some practice I can see me getting to a single focus throw for focusing just like I do with the RF.

Gordon

Gordon

Do you have the EVF set to the B&W profile?

[Ochastan]

44 minutes ago, algrove said:

If you are talking about the EV1, then no focus patch since it a simple EVF only. It is not the whole picture in focus or out of focus since you can still focus precisely on one point in the image and use your stop to determine how great the depth of focus will be.

Exactly. The EV1 becomes a standard digital camera like Canon, Sony, etc with inferior implementation. What would make this work is the Nikon Z phase detection tech or Sony’s color map so that you maintain the composition while focusing. As is, you need to magnify each time and sometimes add focus peaking as well.

[algrove]

On 11/7/2025 at 9:43 PM, lct said:

 

The "noise when using the focus zoom" comes probably from the fact that magnification was too strong. Suffice it to reduce magnification for the noise to decrease or disappear normally.

I must have missed something since I thought magnification was not changeable-it either magnified at a specific % or not.

So how does one change magnification? Just thought perhaps you are referring to 1.3 and 1.8 digital magnification? Yes?

[lct]

19 minutes ago, algrove said:

[...] So how does one change magnification? Just thought perhaps you are referring to 1.3 and 1.8 digital magnification? Yes?

You can also trigger magnification when focusing, by pressing a function button or automatically so, by turning the focus ring of the lens if autozoom is enabled. Then, when the magnified view appears, suffice it to turn the thumbwheel to adjust magnification. 

[algrove]

14 minutes ago, lct said:

You can also trigger magnification when focusing, by pressing a function button or automatically so, by turning the focus ring of the lens if autozoom is enabled. Then, when the magnified view appears, suffice it to turn the thumbwheel to adjust magnification. 

Stupid me as I totally forgot one could change magnification.

Thanks for magnifying that point.🫠

[Tailwagger]

22 minutes ago, algrove said:

Then, when the magnified view appears, suffice it to turn the thumbwheel to adjust magnification.

Which, btw, is how the Ms work with the Viso as well.

[jaapv]

It would probably have made the camera too expensive (dedicated sensor, small production run), but they could have used an M enabled sensor with AF pixels to implement some kind of focus confirmation to replace the focus patch.

[Tailwagger]

38 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It would probably have made the camera too expensive (dedicated sensor, small production run), but they could have used a (M enabled) sensor with AF pixels to implement some kind of focus confirmation to replace the focus patch.

The hope (for some at least) is that this is what will happen next with the M12.  It seems fairly clear at this point that Leica has no desire to differentiate the EV1 from the M in any meaningful way other than dropping the OVF in favor of a superior EVF (at least to the Viso) and lowering the price a bit. Whatever assist tech, be it PDAF, Lidar, what have you, coming down the pipe is therefore likely going to be applied to all Ms.  Perhaps we'll finally get that little red dot focus confirm alert in the OVF.    

[Winedemonium]

I've owned the M EV1 for a couple of weeks now. 

I'm a long time M shooter. I'm reasonably quick, and reasonably accurate. My reasons for getting the M EV1 were 1. I wear glasses which limit my frameline view of the traditonal M, and testing the M EV1 I could see most of the EVF image; 2. extend the range of lenses with easy viewing, e.g. 21mm, 28mm, 90mm... I was also impressed that the M EV1 is light, and the form factor is clean - no Visoflex attachment needed.

In practice.... my heart sank the other day. I took the camera for a fairly easy task. A guide was showing us some historic sites. Reasonably static for several seconds, but a bit of moving around and gesticulating. I'm in a group, so I can use the others for framing / selective focus, and some nice background is there. A doddle with my MP or M10R / M10M. 

But oh boy was I slow and punching in on the focus I still could not really see well if I was in focus, or, to be more accurate, where my plane of focus really sat. This is mostly simply a learning curve for me. I can see a technique coming where I zone focus blind (muscle memory with the focusing tab on M lenses), and from there I hope, just a little adjustment. Secondly, I need to get rid of 'sleep' mode on the settings, and have the camera live 100% of the time. It will drain the battery faster, but it will reduce lag. Waking this camera up and having it also respond to my eye (i.e. activate the EVF) is really slow. (I may just leave it on EVF-only as well to save that monitor to EVF switching time, which is slow). 

For everything slow paced / static, I'm sure this camera will become more natural feeling. But the classic M setup, digital or film, is much faster to use than this. 

I really wish it had a focusing patch simulator in the EVF. In that case why not just use a classic M? The answer is that I still do, and still will. Will I keep the M EV1? I'm not sure yet, actually. I need a lot more time with it to see if I can learn some techniques with it that become intuitive and fast. Let's see.

[jaapv]

The secret of an EVF is: Don't overthink it. Just focus and don't twiddle. No back and forth. Forget about magnification unless you need to focus extremely critically - and then you are best off with a tripod. Basically you are starting with  zone-focus on steroids. You will get the eye-muscle coordination you need in a relatively short while and then you can start increasing your keeper rate.  But still - only use a focus aid when you really need it. And remember - you were not very good and fast when you started out on a rangefinder either. 😜

 

 

 

 

[Derbyshire Man]

19 hours ago, Ochastan said:

So I spent 2 hours comparing the M11 and EV1 side-by-side in daylight and low light, with multiple lenses, different focal and shooting distances, etc. For background, I'm a former pro photographer (New York Times, French National Geographic, etc.) having shot on M for 25 years (M3, M6, M7, M10M today). Here is the plain truth.

There is zero comparison between the two unfortunately. This is not a transition for Leica shooters but a radical change. The EV1 requires learning a new way to focus which for me ended up being a new shooting sequence. With the M, it's usually take a reading to meter, half press to lock my reading, focus/compose at same time and shoot. With the EV1, it became compose, focus with magnification 1.8x + low focus peaking, half press to go back to composition or just shoot depending on the scene. I don't feel I have mastered that sequence nor am I convinced that it is the right one either. It could be meter, focus on key subject and compose/shoot, or meter, compose, focus—I don't know yet. The bottom line is that I did get critical focus in each case but not sure it was better or faster than with the M11. However, it does win on flat scenes where the RF patch does not have much to use to focus.

I personally loved the camera and loved the fact that, obviously, I can use my Tri-elmar, 28, etc native. And the built-in diopter and "looks" (I mainly shoot in B&W) were big wins.

A few things that really were problematic for me. I tried to shoot someone walking while using magnification, and it was quite jittery. Unfortunately, I would not just rely on focus peaking. The magnification is what does the heavy lift and focus peaking (at shallow apertures) is only there to provide fine tuning by looking at how much of the peaking is reinforced. This is where the Q3 wins since the AF does not really require magnification or focus peaking but that's an entirely different animal with the single lens.

In the end, I felt very conflicted and bought neither the EV1 nor the M11. I'm trying to get a loaner and test the EV1 in the field for a week later this month so I can report back. Otherwise it will be the M11 since the patch is fast and works 80-90% of the time and the new Visoflex (whatever it's called) for the ultra wide, static subjects, etc.

I bought a visoflex for my M11’s but never use it as actually even for wides I can see in my head what I’m going to get. 
 

My impression was the EV1 was better.

Edited December 4 by Derbyshire Man

[Leslie22]

About 3 weeks now with the EV1 (40 years with Rangefinder) YES there is a large learning curve.

This morning for the first time I gave my neglected Apo 90 R a go on a morning walk ….. f2 & f2.8 mainly ….. wow EASY to focus. That lens will be used much more often.

[SrMi]

10 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

The hope (for some at least) is that this is what will happen next with the M12.  It seems fairly clear at this point that Leica has no desire to differentiate the EV1 from the M in any meaningful way other than dropping the OVF in favor of a superior EVF (at least to the Viso) and lowering the price a bit. Whatever assist tech, be it PDAF, Lidar, what have you, coming down the pipe is therefore likely going to be applied to all Ms.  Perhaps we'll finally get that little red dot focus confirm alert in the OVF.    

I do not think anything needs to be added in hardware for a focus confirmation similar to that in Nikons. After all, CDAF can determine the focus without PDAF, LiDAR, etc.

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[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, SrMi said:

I do not think anything needs to be added in hardware for a focus confirmation similar to that in Nikons. After all, CDAF can determine the focus without PDAF, LiDAR, etc.

Indeed, I have previously mentioned many times over the years the possibility of porting the SL/SL2 CDAF implementation given the common processor family.  That said, I recently since heard from someone in the know that CDAF on the M is not possible due to "a lack of hardware support".  Initially I thought that statement was BS and didn't bother to challenge it for an explanation.  But upon reflection, I've concluded that 'a lack of hardware support' referred not to a deficiency with the camera, but rather to the lens family.  Likely, the algorithms are tightly tied to having a precise notion of lens positioning via the electronic connection, something, of course, the M mount does not provide.  OTOH, my supposition might be all BS and what was meant was that currently there's no suitable led to light up in the VF.  Dunno.

If by Nikon you're referring to (D)SLRs, my Pentax 645D has a similar system, my understanding is that its the same system that was in use back in the film days for AF, ie. you have a split prism and a sensor.  I still own several film-based autofocus rangefinders, so certainly the RF piece is not an impediment per se, but again, such a system would require new hardware in the M's VF optical path which one suspects, as this could have been done several decades ago, is a place they are not likely to go. 

I suppose we might hope they could wave a magic AI wand to get something fully in software, but who knows where this feature is on their priority list (personally I think it should be at or near the top).  There might not be enough processor/memory budget in the overall context of they want to accomplish.