Leica M EV1: The first M with EVF instead of Rangefinder

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Yes, but those are mainly off-the-shelf. See my edited  post above. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[algrove]

On 11/6/2025 at 1:18 PM, Tailwagger said:

Well, duh. You spent it all on Leicas. 😆 

Not "all",  since I just bought into the Hasselblad X2Dii system.

[algrove]

40 minutes ago, Anonautico said:

The number of 60MP sensors installed by Leica is not so small that one can ignore the cost of models from other manufacturers with a 60MP sensor on the market. They are all significantly less expensive and still offer additional technology (IBIS, AF, etc.).

I do think that Leica has pushed the price spiral too far here.

If Leica sells 2000-3000 EV1 then probably all is good with them.

But does that mean they will continue with the EV2? To me this is important.

[JNK100]

5 hours ago, Anonautico said:

The number of 60MP sensors installed by Leica is not so small that one can ignore the cost of models from other manufacturers with a 60MP sensor on the market. They are all significantly less expensive and still offer additional technology (IBIS, AF, etc.).

I do think that Leica has pushed the price spiral too far here.

The SL3 has a 60mp sensor and is about a thousand GBP less expensive than theEV1. It has AF and IBIS. It's a nice camera if you want that sort of spec.

[Tailwagger]

2 hours ago, algrove said:

Not "all",  since I just bought into the Hasselblad X2Dii system.

I just started considering one.  I had (actually have) a X1Dii, but the EVF died a while back so the system's been just laying there.  Torn between buying X2Dii or upgrading my bashed up SL2 to an SL3.  Love the 'blad ergonomics, menu system, IQ, color science, etc, but OTOH, reliability, build quality and the thought of having to invest additional money in glass, given I already have a completely compliment of L mount lenses, is a bit daunting.  That said, it is rather striking that a new SL3 with it's somewhat more constrained feature set requires a few hundred more coins than the X2D.  It's one thing to pay the M luxury tax, given it has no real competition, but for the SL, it is another matter.

2 hours ago, algrove said:

But does that mean they will continue with the EV2? To me this is important.

In the end, I believe they will be forced to, at least in the sense that the EVF and its feature set can not continue to be seen as optional functionality.  Electronic viewing will increasingly be seen as a core part of the M's value proposition. ie. the Viso cat, who had been poking his whiskers out of the bag for quite a now, has finally fully extricated itself. 

Given the rumors that the M12's motif seems to revolve around improving the optical RF experience, perhaps they currently are more of a mind to address the general fear of manual focusing via optical RF as opposed to throwing in the towel and concentrating on advancing the user's EVF experience. Fine by me, I want both. The success of the Q certainly suggests there is a broader market beyond M owners for high quality, minimalist compact cameras. But $10gs (+optics) is a tough ask for those with zero RF experience unless the internet influencers tell them everything will be okay.  What we can hope is that developments like the blad's lidar system, are exactly the sort of thing to allay such fears when focusing the optical RF while at the same time benefitting an EVF only model.

Either way, there might not be a camera named M12-EV, but down the line if the M is going to be anything other than retro cool asterisk on the photographic landscape (are we already there?), advancing the state of the art of manual focusing via EVF will be mandatory with or without the OVF.

[algrove]

Just was out at an Air Show today with my M11M+Viso2 and even with people-turn focus ring  to zoom in/nail focus/take shot. Sure not fast but a familiar workset for me.

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

I just started considering one.  I had (actually have) a X1Dii, but the EVF died a while back so the system's been just laying there.  Torn between buying X2Dii or upgrading my bashed up SL2 to an SL3.  Love the 'blad ergonomics, menu system, IQ, color science, etc, but OTOH, reliability, build quality and the thought of having to invest additional money in glass, given I already have a completely compliment of L mount lenses, is a bit daunting.  That said, it is rather striking that a new SL3 with it's somewhat more constrained feature set requires a few hundred more coins than the X2D.  It's one thing to pay the M luxury tax, given it has no real competition, but for the SL, it is another matter.

In the end, I believe they will be forced to, at least in the sense that the EVF and its feature set can not continue to be seen as optional functionality.  Electronic viewing will increasingly be seen as a core part of the M's value proposition. ie. the Viso cat, who had been poking his whiskers out of the bag for quite a now, has finally fully extricated itself. 

Given the rumors that the M12's motif seems to revolve around improving the optical RF experience, perhaps they currently are more of a mind to address the general fear of manual focusing via optical RF as opposed to throwing in the towel and concentrating on advancing the user's EVF experience. Fine by me, I want both. The success of the Q certainly suggests there is a broader market beyond M owners for high quality, minimalist compact cameras. But $10gs (+optics) is a tough ask for those with zero RF experience unless the internet influencers tell them everything will be okay.  What we can hope is that developments like the blad's lidar system, are exactly the sort of thing to allay such fears when focusing the optical RF while at the same time benefitting an EVF only model.

Either way, there might not be a camera named M12-EV, but down the line if the M is going to be anything other than retro cool asterisk on the photographic landscape (are we already there?), advancing the state of the art of manual focusing via EVF will be mandatory with or without the OVF.

I think that it is somewhat different. a RF M is a unique niche and as such timeless. A manual EVF camera has to compete in a crowded market with one hand tied behind its back for lack of AF. No way can it be the future of the M system, it will always remain an addition. 

[charlesphoto99]

Thing is, it's never been easier to learn how to use a rangefinder. Instant feedback. No souping rolls and making proof sheets and prints just to find you bodged the focus. 

But things are always 'too difficult' now so we need something else, something new and shiny.... [said in whiny sarcastic voice] 

[jrichie]

8 hours ago, JNK100 said:

The SL3 has a 60mp sensor and is about a thousand GBP less expensive than theEV1. It has AF and IBIS. It's a nice camera if you want that sort of spec.

You can imagine the meetings at Leica when deciding the price of the EV1 vs M11 vs SL...........

[Tailwagger]

11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I think that it is somewhat different. a RF M is a unique niche and as such timeless. A manual EVF camera has to compete in a crowded market with one hand tied behind its back for lack of AF. No way can it be the future of the M system, it will always remain an addition. 

And the RF M isn't competing in exactly the same crowded market with the exactly the same AF hand tied behind its back?  

Electronics are cheaper, more reliable and ultimately more efficient.  Its why film was supplanted in the first place (much to the chagrin of many) and by extension why there is a digital M.  Moving away from emphasizing the opto/mechanical aspects of photography is simply the inevitable march out of the industrial revolution into the digital one (and now, god help us, the looming AI/Quantum era).  How are DSLR sales doing these days?  They too have their rabid fans, but the writing is clearly on the wall, even at the high end... note the Canon R1.  We might not wish nor like to think it so, but in the digital world, SLR/RF or otherwise, it is the optical VF path that is along for the ride, not the electronic one.  There hopefully will always, for some value of the term, be an optically-based M RF.  I've certainly expressed many times my belief that I find the combination of OVF/EVF to be ideal. But any significant future innovations with respect to the camera body are nearly exclusively to be found on the electronics, computing and deep learning side of things. If thats not the case with future Ms, than we're pretty close to the end of the road with little need for an M12 or beyond.    

 

[jaapv]

Indeed it is not competing in the same market. There is no realistic competition   The EV1 will be mainly sold to those who are already ensnared by the M system and maybe to those who want to get involved in that niche without being of it. The only way that it would sell significantly to outsiders would be if it managed to attain cult status, but I don’t think.that Leica has the influencers to get there, even if they wanted. 

[LocalHero1953]

20 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Indeed it is not competing in the same market.

For a particular definition of 'market'. It's competing in the market for cameras, medium-small cameras, expensive cameras, digital cameras, full-frame cameras, luxury cameras......

[jaapv]

It is even competing in the market for electronic appliances in general. 🤣🤣An admirable  255,0,0  herring! 

[lct]

The market if that of M lens users. Not that small a market in my book and no competition with AF lenses that don't work with M cameras anyway.

[jaapv]

Yes, but how many new M users will this camera attract? That is the discussion here. I would say: few. 

[lct]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but how many new M users will this camera attract? That is the discussion here. I would say: few. 

And Leica said many enough to launch a new camera. The market will rule as usual.

[jaapv]

True, but they also made clear that they released the camera on customer demand. That excludes the outside world. Time will tell, as I said, it only needs a few influencers to turn it into a hype - very good for used prices in the end. 😆

[LocalHero1953]

45 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but how many new M users will this camera attract? That is the discussion here. I would say: few. 

I would say 'enough'.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[algrove]

As I found out and reminded myself just yesterday, when I want an EVF the Viso2 is fine with me. After using it on an M11 for 3 years and on M10 and earlier models for many more years, I will stick with the add-on EVF. In the end a built-in EVF on a manual focus camera/lenses is not needed by myself. 

Once this model was introduced I sold one M11P and M11M (I owned 2 of each) and decided to get a second X2Dii which is the best EVF camera I have owned to date including the SL3 and SL3S and also the SL2 and SL2S models. The Q's are OK, but in the end I prefer changing lenses.

[algrove]

Just now, LocalHero1953 said:

I would say 'enough'.

Agree, enough to pay for all the influencers Leica flew to Italy from around the world and the minimal developmental costs.