Leica M EV1: The first M with EVF instead of Rangefinder

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[pgk]

1 hour ago, lincoln_m said:

In Jono's review he addresses the focusing differences/speed of Rangerfinder v EVF and confirms my concerns after my use of SONY A7 and Leica SLs with M adapters.

"In fact, the focusing is always faster with the rangefinder, this is especially the case with wide angle lenses with a big depth of field, where it can be really hard to see where the optimal point of focus is with the EVF, but it’s also true of standard lenses, again, especially if you stop down a bit."

As I have been stating for quite some time. The trade-off for changing the rangefinder for and electronic viewfinder is that whilst framing for wide-angle photography will be more precise, focus will be slower. Its the other way around for a rangefinder and requires experience to frame well. Precise focus with wide lenses is a rangefinder strength. No camera is perfect though.

[colonel]

agree. it seems that focusing with the EVF is slow. And you need a 2 step process, having to zoom in to focus and zoom out to frame. Fast focusing is so vital for me

Edited Thursday at 03:56 PM by colonel

[setuporg]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Congrats to Leica on the launch of something different! 

Does that camera needs its own subforum?

"Welcome, strange new kid!  Now go sit over there."

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, setuporg said:

"Welcome, strange new kid!  Now go sit over there."

That model needs some protection by moving it in its own forum 🤣.

[snooper]

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Looks like a M mount Q3 to me, but without IBIS.

[BWColor]

6 minutes ago, 40mm f/2 said:

I was reading that the range finder is by far the most expensive part of a M camera because of its mechanical complexity and need to manual adjustment (labor cost). So selling the M EV-1 for  not quite 1k less than the M11is likely still making Leica profit. The range finder allows precise and fast focusing only for a small range of focal lengths (28-50mm) and not in close focus range. So if one uses a camera with that restriction the M11 (or its successor) will be competitive especially especially considering its compact size/weight and a huge selection of lenses. A camera with an EVF does not have these restrictions including  precise framing but what would be the advantage of the EV-1 to other high end camera systems except compact size?

I can envision an M12 with an optical/electronic rangefinder.  It is possible that fully mechanical rangefinders are a thing of the past.  Perhaps, the mechanical lens/body interface will become a “fly-by-wire” interface where the lens linkage information is immediately digitized.  This might just eliminate time consuming mechanical lens/body focus adjustments.  It could all be done in the menu with each lens accurately adjusted.

[DadDadDaddyo]

None of this will matter until it comes in a color that goes with my ensemble!

And where's the Limited Edition Narwahl Skin Edition????

Edited Thursday at 04:10 PM by DadDadDaddyo

[setuporg]

28 minutes ago, SrMi said:

As an experienced rangefinder photographer, you may find that nonsense. But others don't. See the title of the Amateur Photographer review:

New Leica M EV1 with electronic viewfinder makes focusing and composing SO MUCH easier 

An failed astronaut who dropped out of a NASA program: not going to space makes life so much easier!  You don't need a space suit to walk around Earth and you can breathe naturally!

[Pixeleater]

24 minutes ago, lincoln_m said:

Yes that is my concern too, no rangefinders in the future. First the close focus lenses now an M EVF built-in to use those lenses. But at least they didn't call it the M12.

An M12 Rangefinder with 36Mpixels lower base ISO and low noise high dynamic range would be my choice. Oh also under £6K too.

Or purchase an M10-R. 😊 

[lincoln_m]

12 minutes ago, rramesh said:

In the M10 or M11 in a pinch one can always focus with the rear LCD.

Well that depends on your eyes. I'd need a loupe because the back screen is only in focus at arms length and then the screen is quite small at that distance perhaps like a 0.1x magnification. A 10x loupe on the back screen is the EVF. Yet thankfully I can focus clearly using the rangefinder as it draws me into the scene and I feel part of it. I generally don't use the back screen except for adjusting the menus and the occasional image review but with the low res LCD everything "seems" in focus even though they might not be once I get the images in Lightroom for review.

I think I agree with others that an SL3 /SL3-S with an M adapter is the way to go for M lenses and an EVF.

[colonel]

4 minutes ago, lincoln_m said:

Well that depends on your eyes. I'd need a loupe because the back screen is only in focus at arms length and then the screen is quite small at that distance perhaps like a 0.1x magnification. A 10x loupe on the back screen is the EVF. Yet thankfully I can focus clearly using the rangefinder as it draws me into the scene and I feel part of it. I generally don't use the back screen except for adjusting the menus and the occasional image review but with the low res LCD everything "seems" in focus even though they might not be once I get the images in Lightroom for review.

I think I agree with others that an SL3 /SL3-S with an M adapter is the way to go for M lenses and an EVF.

yes. at twice the size (exaggeration) . The M being compact with compact jewel like lenses is one of its delights at incredible photo quality

[JNK100]

44 minutes ago, Kickstand said:

Despite what Leica have said today about the rangefinder remaining a "core part of the company", my biggest worry is that this could quickly change and a product like this could become the default for the M system with the odd limited "special edition" run of traditional rangefinder models thrown, in that might still not be offered in silver or black paint.

Remember, no other company on earth makes modern rangefinder cameras so if Leica decides to cut their losses and phase it out entirely or offer them only to luxury collectors, we are screwed. I really hope this is not the case and that the M EVF can remain the alternative rather than the norm.

 

That is a worry 8 agree but Pixii make a range finder of course.

[colonel]

12 minutes ago, BWColor said:

 It is possible that fully mechanical rangefinders are a thing of the past.  P

anything can be canned, but since this is Leica's cash cow highly unlikely

think about it, the M lenses are jewellery and the RF camera is a work of art, fusing mechanicals and electronics.

Take out the jewellery and I am left with my Z8 not an M.

I love the size of the M, the way it works, the process and the results. 

It's like saying, well Rolex should go quartz as its more accurate and cheaper. Yes well .....

[lincoln_m]

2 minutes ago, Pixeleater said:

Or purchase an M10-R. 😊 

Isn't the M10-R the same sensor tech as M10 but smaller noisier pixels? Where the M11 onwards (60MP, 36MP, 18MP) is a Back Side Illuminated sensor (new tech with lower noise for the size and better dynamic range) so if they made a 36MP version only it should have lower noise and better dynamic range than the 47MP M10-R? 60MP seems too much for handheld but 24MP doesn't seem enough in some cases, hence the 36MP as the new low noise sensor. 

I really wouldn't know what to get if my M10 has trouble other than another used M10. M11 etc just seem too expensive for my hobby these days. 

[frankchn]

44 minutes ago, dante said:

No discussion of phase detection (which comes with this likely Sony sensor). PD is key to focusing aids like Fuji has (the virtual rangefinder). If this camera can't read the PD pixels on the sensor, it's game over for advanced focusing.

The actual PD pixels might not exist on this sensor. Sony makes two versions of the IMX455 sensor, one without masked PD pixels (IMX455AQK) and one with (IMX455BQK). I believe the M cameras use the former one, while the Q and SL the latter.

Edited Thursday at 04:22 PM by frankchn

[01maciel]

Maybe I'm nitpicking, but this isn't an M camera in Leica's previous marketing model. M stands for Messsucher == rangefinder. But since this camera doesn't have one, it isn't one. Unfortunately, the P has already been taken in the M context, otherwise it could be called the M-Pretender. That's not enough innovation for me. So I'll continue to be patient, keep using my M10 and only buy a new Leica when a hybrid viewfinder is offered.

And if I want to use more technology for my M lenses, I'll screw them onto the Panasonic S1R. It also has an excellent EVF.

[krooj]

Bleh - this isn't what I was hoping to see at all. What would've been really, really cool and innovative is a coupling of an RF mechanism with superimposition of a virtual focus confirmation patch within the EVF, along with a DOF scale, akin to what you get with a GR in snap mode. This thing is not even small... they could've gone down in size to Q dimensions and at least it would've been something. This feels like more of an engineering sample than a finished product. 

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[thrid]

It was pretty much inevitable that there would eventually be an EVF version of the M.

As long as they keep making the traditional opto-mechanical versions I'm fine with it and certainly can see the appeal for many people.

I think a hybrid version would have been more interesting and something I probably would have been interested in buying.

I'm curious what the refresh rate is of the EVF... 120Hz? Higher? Maybe there is a boost mode for covering fast action? Is it double buffered like on the Z9? I'm going to guess they borrowed it from the SL or  Q series.

It will be interesting to see what the battery life is. I have the Viso for my M11 and it's pretty power-hungry.

At $8995 it's 'cheaper' than the rumor mill had predicted. (estimates were closer to $10,000.)

In any case Leica will probably sell a ton of these, so that's good news for anyone interested in them staying in business.