6-bit coding and Auto Lens Detection

[pgh]

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1 minute ago, lct said:

Also ARRI or Sigma cameras such as my FPL body. Cropping can be a purpose of those framelines but also perspective control i was referring to previously. In both cases, photogs can see ouside the framelines and i expect the EVF M to allow for the same facility. Just for info.

I hate to wade into this inane conversation but if you call them crop lines everything will make more sense to people and you can avoid this pedantic back and forth, because they offer a preview of cropping into to the recorded image data which is fundamentally different. 
 

As it is, you’re insisting on using common terms in an uncommon way and telling people they are wrong. Language is not fixed but your use is in the minority and confusing and connotes a misunderstanding. The evf sees what the lens sees, a rangefinder is not limited to that. The frame lines are what the various typical lenses with RF coupling would approximately see, and everything outside of it the lens will never see. In an evf this isn’t possible. It would need a live video feed from a lens that is wider than what is mounted. 

[lct]

2 minutes ago, pgh said:

[...] As it is, you’re insisting on using common terms in an uncommon way and telling people they are wrong [...]

I'm just using common terms indeed and you can see them employed in the links to EVFs i posted above. Those terms are not restricted to rangefinders.

[IkarusJohn]

Counselor, words matter.

The frame lines are a visual guide on the plain optical view finder, approximating where the lens captures the image (you know this); an EVF shows the entire field of view through the lens (you know this too).  The point of the discussion you started was 6 bit coding and lens detection; which has been illuminating.

The crop lines in the Q3 and in the M11 simply show what the JPeg will crop to (the DNG file will still record the entire field of view).  Those crop lines will appear regardless of the lens attached. My X2D does the same, with more options.  The area outside the frame lines isn’t captured, whereas the EVF shows nothing outside what the lens transmits and the sensor records.

It just confuses the discussion to refer to crop lines as frame lines.  But then, as a long time M user, you do know the difference …

[lct]

6 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Counselor, words matter.

The frame lines are a visual guide on the plain optical view finder, approximating where the lens captures the image (you know this); an EVF shows the entire field of view through the lens (you know this too).  The point of the discussion you started was 6 bit coding and lens detection; which has been illuminating.

The crop lines in the Q3 and in the M11 simply show what the JPeg will crop to (the DNG file will still record the entire field of view).  Those crop lines will appear regardless of the lens attached. My X2D does the same, with more options.  The area outside the frame lines isn’t captured, whereas the EVF shows nothing outside what the lens transmits and the sensor records.

It just confuses the discussion to refer to crop lines as frame lines.  But then, as a long time M user, you do know the difference …

Brilliant, dear colleague, but i don't crop anything when i use perspective control. As i suggested above, the term framelines can be used for rangefinders but also for EVFs. The thead being about 6bit coding this discussion is somewhat OT but it relates to live view anyway and i'm the OP after all, so why not discussing on that if mods allow.

[jaapv]

Yes, they can - by cropping the full frame... Those are not framelines, but croplines. .

[lct]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, they can - by cropping the full frame... Those are not framelines, but croplines. .

We will probably never agree on that but whatever definition of framelines, i can see both inside and outside of them with both RF and EVF cameras. I just have not another choice with a RF, save by using 28m framelines, while with a EVF i can choose to only see inside the framelines if i wish so. Oops i realize i wrote 3 times framelines, sorry folks 😜

[jdlaing]

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47 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, they can - by cropping the full frame... Those are not framelines, but croplines. .

He’s never going to get it. 😃

[IkarusJohn]

7 hours ago, lct said:

Brilliant, dear colleague, but i don't crop anything when i use perspective control. As i suggested above, the term framelines can be used for rangefinders but also for EVFs. The thead being about 6bit coding this discussion is somewhat OT but it relates to live view anyway and i'm the OP after all, so why not discussing on that if mods allow.

?

[DadDadDaddyo]

I was so pleased with my latest print that I took it to the art supply shop.....

 

... but the frame lines were too long.

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, jdlaing said:

He’s never going to get it. 😃

This. 😵‍💫

[pgh]

12 hours ago, lct said:

can see both inside and outside of them with both RF and EVF cameras

If you have a 35mm lens on, you cannot see outside the 35mm frame on your EVF. 
You can see outside the crop lines, yes… to the 35mm full frame composition. 

 

[lct]

13 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

?

It is the moment that counts. When i take my photo, i compose inside framelines, be they mechanical, electronic or otherwise. The rest is just cooking. Hunters aren’t cooks as HCB said 😎

[IkarusJohn]

Just now, lct said:

It is the moment that counts. When i take my photo, i compose inside framelines, be they mechanical, electronic or otherwise. The rest is just cooking. Hunters aren’t cooks as HCB said 😎

I’ve reached the point in this discussion where you know the point, we all know you know the point ... so continuing is pointless!
 

(see what I did there?)

[lct]

16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’ve reached the point in this discussion where you know the point, we all know you know the point ... so continuing is pointless! [...]

I answered all questions i understood, i believe, but i see no problem with interrupting or continuing this discussion.

Edited Sunday at 07:42 AM by lct

[kiwidad]

On 10/1/2025 at 7:54 PM, jdlaing said:

No. It’s mechanical. The lens mount has a part that moves when you change focal lengths on an M body. On an SL you choose from a menu.

So how does the camera know the focal length of a MATE when it’s attached? The code doesn’t change!

[jaapv]

The bayonet has a sliding element that toggles the mechanical focal length detector. 

[lct]

56 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The bayonet has a sliding element that toggles the mechanical focal length detector. 

So when changing the focal length, does it appear automatically in the camera and/on exif data? Just curious as i hesitate to have my MATE coded.

Edited Sunday at 10:30 AM by lct

[jdlaing]

4 hours ago, kiwidad said:

So how does the camera know the focal length of a MATE when it’s attached? The code doesn’t change!

There is a spring loaded part on the back of the lens that moves when you change focal lengths. The WATE does not have this. You select from the menu.

The MATE was a very costly, exotic and fragile lens in some ways.

[jdlaing]

2 hours ago, lct said:

So when changing the focal length, does it appear automatically in the camera and/on exif data? Just curious as i hesitate to have my MATE coded.

Automatically 

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[jaapv]

On the first version it was a bit hit or miss, the mechanics of the second version were better. There is no need to worry about the coding of the lens. The coding has nil impact on the functioning of the framelines.  The whole discussion was about the result of both coding and frameline selection on the digital flow, like EXIF and corrections. For the MATE this is no issue.