Leica SL3 vs Hasselblad X2D II price, reasonability and real use

[CptSlevin]

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Looks like this thread really might hurt Leica SL sales, that's why it was moved to Digital Forum instead of appropriate Leica SL forum section in which in rightfully belonged and sparked a very controversial, but reasonable SL line critique.

 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, CptSlevin said:

Looks like this thread really might hurt Leica SL sales, that's why it was moved to Digital Forum instead of appropriate Leica SL forum section in which in rightfully belonged and sparked a very controversial, but reasonable SL line critique.

 

That is a very far-fetched theory and unfair to the moderators.

The reason why it was moved here may have been that it became less about SL3 but more about MF cameras in general.

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

Looks like this thread really might hurt Leica SL sales, that's why it was moved to Digital Forum instead of appropriate Leica SL forum section in which in rightfully belonged and sparked a very controversial, but reasonable SL line critique.

 

Bollocks. It was moved because the connection to the SL had become rather tenuous. If the intent was to"hide" SL critique (which we never do!) , action would have been taken at that time, weeks ago.

[CptSlevin]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

Bollocks. It was moved because the connection to the SL had become rather tenuous. If the intent was to"hide" SL critique (which we never do!) , action would have been taken at that time, weeks ago.

Haha

 

of course, of course

[CptSlevin]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

That is a very far-fetched theory and unfair to the moderators.

The reason why it was moved here may have been that it became less about SL3 but more about MF cameras in general.

Pages 1-7 all about comparison and still discussion about SL, Q vs X2D

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

And wow, snap moved.
Don't make me laugh, man.

This thread and discussion is one of the hottest in SL subsection and looks like it really hurts SL reputation in the eyes of users

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

This thread and discussion is one of the hottest in SL subsection and looks like it really hurts SL reputation in the eyes of users

You know there are little green men following you everywhere?

[LUF Admin]

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14 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

Looks like this thread really might hurt Leica SL sales, that's why it was moved to Digital Forum instead of appropriate Leica SL forum section in which in rightfully belonged and sparked a very controversial, but reasonable SL line critique.

We as moderator team are open for feedback. 
If you think that this thread should be in the SL section, please send us a message or report it.

I'm not sure which one is the appropriate sub-forum for this topic but I can find good arguments for both.

What we are not open for:

Conspiracy theories who claim that we suppress criticism.

There is no place in the universe where Leica products are criticized so intensely and so persistent like this Leica Forum.

And you know what? This kind of feedback is interesting for Leica. They don't try and didn't try in 25 years in any way to suppress any discussion in this forum.

Quite the opposite: They are really interested in any kind of problem and ask us to get more details about all kinds of product problems.

So please do us a favor and stop spreading false allegations.

Andreas

[CptSlevin]

3 hours ago, LUF Admin said:

We as moderator team are open for feedback. 
If you think that this thread should be in the SL section, please send us a message or report it.

I'm not sure which one is the appropriate sub-forum for this topic but I can find good arguments for both.

What we are not open for:

Conspiracy theories who claim that we suppress criticism.

There is no place in the universe where Leica products are criticized so intensely and so persistent like this Leica Forum.

And you know what? This kind of feedback is interesting for Leica. They don't try and didn't try in 25 years in any way to suppress any discussion in this forum.

Quite the opposite: They are really interested in any kind of problem and ask us to get more details about all kinds of product problems.

So please do us a favor and stop spreading false allegations.

Andreas

Hello, Andreas.

Yes, I started this thread as comparison with Leica SL3 model line because they are close call and lens choices also match HB.

The thread was up and going for more than a week, gathering opinions and sharing stories how Leica SL users chance system to HB and vice versa.

it belongs to this section because Leica SL3 is the direct competitor to Hasselblad X2D II and a lot of users of SL3 thinking of switching systems and this thread presents opinions of ecosystems.

So why move it somewhere else?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It’s still findable from the SL forum. The link still takes you to the thread. Nothing has been hidden.

Gordon

[LUF Admin]

1 hour ago, CptSlevin said:

So why move it somewhere else?

Because we are the Leica Forum here. And we want to keep focus on Leica products.

Threads mentioning competitor products (in this case the Hasselblad X2D II) tend to escalate: Suddenly we have a 90% Hasselblad (or Sony or Canon) thread in the Leica SL forum.

Our compromise is to move such threads to another section we see as more appropriate: Digital Forum or Small talk-

You have valid arguments, we have valid arguments too – and we do the work and we bear the responsibility.

Please respect our decision.

Andreas

[jaapv]

The thread had veered from the SL3 to the hypothetical S4, more appropriate if you ask me as one is comparing cameras with similar sensor format.

[SrMi]

I do not always agree with the moderator's decision to move a thread that I am particularly interested in. Still, I would never attribute nefarious reasons for moving the thread just because I disagree with it.

 

[pgk]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

The thread had veered from the SL3 to the hypothetical S4, more appropriate if you ask me as one is comparing cameras with similar sensor format.

Yes, I'm puzzled over this too. Surely we've got past thinking that all formats are the same?

[pgh]

I need to amend my previous comments about workflow. The latest version of Photo Mechanic now recognizes .3fr files, which is a total game changer and has given me pause on selling my remaining Hassy gear. The culling process now integrates with all of my other work. 
 

I spend money stupidly on my M cameras because they are part of my life and give me the most joy. They’re my indulgence and sometimes I get to use them for work. But when it comes to modern working tools I am a lot more price sensitive, and all of a sudden both the SL3 and the hypothetical S4 are way less interesting to me, despite wanting to keep all my work under one umbrella, so to speak. The X2d2 upgrades, while not a big deal nearly as much as Photo Mechanic supporting 3fr files - take this kit to a potential one brand working kit. I tend to take 2 bodies on jobs and for years it’s been an awkward hassy + SL2 combo (where the SL2 sits in the bag usually, but is used for specific things). Now though. Sheesh. I’m not going to sell my SL2 because it is a great camera, a great scanner for my 35mm film and has also depreciated wildly (it embodies the greatest sunk cost of any camera I’ve ever bought) but I’m really unsure of where my next modern digital body comes from, all signs point to x2d2 - which basically looks like the best available mirrorless for high res still  work now, medium format or not. Unlike some I don’t find the APO glass compelling, it is just bananas crazy expensive for a 35mm mirrorless. I shoot my SL2 with sigmas or M glass. 

Moving this thread is understandable but inappropriate to my mind, the point is the comparison here. 

[frame-it]

18 hours ago, jaapv said:

comparing cameras with similar sensor format.

should be a permanent concrete sticky on all sub forums

[pgh]

3 hours ago, frame-it said:

should be a permanent concrete sticky on all sub forums

No, not anymore.

I think when it comes to the SL3 and the X2d2, the sensor size is starting to become a little less important. The difference really is not that great, and they are both engineered to have very high image quality. The functionality is getting similar in a lot of ways. So much so that some of us may debate between the two - and consider the format difference yes - but not as the sort of drastic difference maker that was once the case. The difference between 35mm and 6x7 film is significant in real world use. Between these two cameras it is quite marginal in a lot of ways.  This isn’t to say the difference doesn’t exist, but image quality likely isn’t the primary consideration anymore - it is one amongst a few considerations. With film, you knew that you needed medium format - with digital now, depending on your images, it’s not so clear. The 60 mp sensor does a very nice job. The 100, an even nicer job - especially at the same price point now, it can be a tipping point sort of consideration, but when it was twice as much, probably not. 

If the S4 is 150 mp and slow and tripod bound / studio oriented / then maybe that’s a separate thing, but then again, if the SL4 is unwieldy like that it’s going to be an even hard(er) sell than it already would be against the GFX/XxD models. 

Edited September 9 by pgh

[Olaf_ZG]

17 hours ago, pgh said:

I need to amend my previous comments about workflow. The latest version of Photo Mechanic now recognizes .3fr files, which is a total game changer and has given me pause on selling my remaining Hassy gear. The culling process now integrates with all of my other work. 

I am still on a version in the six series. In the update release nothing is mentioned on .3fr files. Which version are you on? Thanks.

[pgh]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I am still on a version in the six series. In the update release nothing is mentioned on .3fr files. Which version are you on? Thanks.

I know, you’d think they’d want to sell that! I downloaded a trial of the most recent version (not the plus version) after inquiring with them. They told me x2d2 files now worked, which is useless for me, but I gave it a shot anyways and my .3fr from my 907x50c and x2d both showed jpgs. Fff files do not though. I was on 6 too. I’ll obviously pay for the upgrade if I decide to keep and use the hassy. Still sort of on the fence but leaning keep now. 

Edited September 9 by pgh

[Olaf_ZG]

7 minutes ago, pgh said:

I know, you’d think they’d want to sell that! I downloaded a trial of the most recent version (not the plus version) after inquiring with them. They told me x2d2 files now worked, which is useless for me, but I gave it a shot anyways and my .3fr from my 907x50c and x2d both showed jpgs. Fff files do not though. I was on 6 too. I’ll obviously pay for the upgrade if I decide to keep and use the hassy. Still sort of on the fence but leaning keep now. 

It will cost me 300€, and I still wouldn’t be able to use the m8/9 files. Not sure if I am willing to pay this as I only use it for culling, and I won’t use my HB’s for heavy shooting. 
I do need to find a way to integrate Phocus in my workflow.

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[pgh]

My old m8 files are so lightweight that culling isn’t as onerous in C1, but I get it. But I much prefer PMs importing and iptc interface - so for now I’ll do all of that with PM and my hassy files, then only ever import about 10%-20% of my total images to Phocus which will be a lot easier to manage I think - esp w files already named and catalogued.