Leica SL3 vs Hasselblad X2D II price, reasonability and real use

[Olaf_ZG]

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6 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is correct and the  Bayer filter certainly makes a difference. The crossover points, the tonal curve, etc. But all can be influenced by the digital pipeline  afterwards. Most of us are able to tweak colour to our taste in postprocessing, especially by moving into LAB. The end difference can be minimal. No, I think Hasselblads digital expertise makes the difference , not the sensor on its own. 

I am also not sure if it is the sensor or the digital expertise, though I have the feeling it is the latter. 
That said, the different workflow is a big annoyance, and with normal snaps, it is hard to see a significant difference. But, for long exposures, the reason I bought into the system, I will use Phocus for sure: but this is like shooting MF film: a handful shots during a session.

offtopic: it is a pity we can’t show HB images here and compare. Many users have both systems, but this is the only forum were things are discussed actively. 

[T25UFO]

OK, so after >100 posts I think we all understand that @CptSlevin prefers HB over Q3.  Fine, let's move on . . .

Now the more important question: can you use a 75mm Noctilux on the HB without resorting to the electronic shutter?  Now that's the real deal breaker!

[beewee]

12 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Speaking as an ignoramus, I assume that there are different varieties of Bayer filter: the red, green and blue filters can be designed to allow certain wavelength ranges through, and those ranges must overlap to a greater or lesser extent. After all, you can't record the full colours of a scene from just the 700, 550 and 475 nm response. The full visible light spectrum has to be detected. Perhaps HB has just chosen its Bayer filter colours better than Leica's - e.g. perhaps its blue filter detects more of the cyan range than Leica's does. 

Yup. Leica did exactly that in S3 sensor and the M10. They were quite proud of this and mentioned this: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2018/09/photokina-2018-the-leica-s3/

Quote

Also, we implemented a new color filter array, which is going to offer really amazing color. We will tune the output for skin tone, but it will work extremely well for a wide variety of applications like landscape, architecture, fine art, etc. You'll especially see an improvement in the red channel, which has always been challenging for digital photographers when photographing bright reds, like automotive paint, or flowers in the sun.

 

Edited September 4 by beewee

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, beewee said:

Yup. Leica did exactly that in S3 sensor and the M10. 

 

The sensor architecture in the M10-R (and M10 Monochrom), not the M10, was derived from S3.

Edited September 5 by Jeff S

[CptSlevin]

9 hours ago, T25UFO said:

OK, so after >100 posts I think we all understand that @CptSlevin prefers HB over Q3.  Fine, let's move on . . .

Now the more important question: can you use a 75mm Noctilux on the HB without resorting to the electronic shutter?  Now that's the real deal breaker!

nope, you can't
there is no shutter in your 75mm Noctilux.

Mechanical shutter is presented only in XCD lenses, other lenses rely on terrible electronic shutter.

btw, I will buy 907x 100c mark II in 2-3 years if they add ibis, not interested in X2D II, I have perfect combo of 2 SL2S and amazing Sigma primes.
They will announce 35mm 1.2 II and 135 1.4 on the 9th of September, that's a breakthrough.

[Oxfordian]

3 hours ago, CptSlevin said:

They will announce 35mm 1.2 II and 135 1.4 on the 9th of September, that's a breakthrough.

Ooh, now that is interesting, I presume that they will be the nice new svelte Mirrorless versions not reworks of older bulky DSLR lenses, the 135/1.4 is rather appealing I could get a lot of use from that lens, more so than the 35/1.2. I look forward to the press releases and no doubt myriad of videos from the experts on YT on both lenses. Thanks for the heads up.

[wellfleet]

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12 hours ago, Oxfordian said:

Ooh, now that is interesting, I presume that they will be the nice new svelte Mirrorless versions not reworks of older bulky DSLR lenses, the 135/1.4 is rather appealing I could get a lot of use from that lens, more so than the 35/1.2. I look forward to the press releases and no doubt myriad of videos from the experts on YT on both lenses. Thanks for the heads up.

They're supposed to be announced on Sept 9th along with a 20-200mm.

https://www.l-rumors.com/first-leaked-images-of-the-new-sigma-20-200mm-and-35mm-f-1-2-ii-lenses/

[S Maclean]

I have the sl3 and had the X2D and 907x 

love then all, pound for pound Hasselblad does have better IQ imo. It’s just stellar. Clear, unmistakably Hasselblad.

But, I ended up selling all the Hasselblad equipment, because, in the end I always took the SL3 to complement my M’s. And I got a Q43 to add to it. 

Staying on one brand that suits my style of shooting, where I can interchange lenses, menus are consistent etc has more advantages to me than the extra IQ.  If I was working Professionally and had to deliver the best files possible then I would have kept the H set. 

I am hoping that Leica will re issue a medium format camera that can use the L lenses well. After all those APO primes to punch above their weight.

[hansvons]

9 hours ago, S Maclean said:

I am hoping that Leica will re issue a medium format camera that can use the L lenses well. After all those APO primes to punch above their weight

Pretty much my thinking. An S4 that can take SL lenses (and crop the sensor accordingly when necessary) and has the option to pixel-bin for lower resolutions would be the reason why I’d upgrade my SL2-S. I’m also curious to see what Leica would come up in terms of a 35mm MF-equivalent prime lens. That would be my go-to lens.

I’d be using it for fashion, landscapes and the occasional reportage. However, the latter could be nicely dealt with with an M-10, which I’m contemplating since years and not buying because the SL2-S with the APO 35mm does what I want it to do, only a tad too heavy, too much of a tool for subjects that need a quick, unplanned, almost vegetatively shooting approach.

As longs as this isn’t materializing, I’m happy with my Swiss Army knife SL2-S and my M6 for proper B&W.

Side note: I make large prints with my 4600 Canon Pro printer. As longs as resolution is not the story (in my work it never is) 24MP for 80x60 images (cm) is more than enough. Actually, the typical resolution of 35mm negative film is fitting well that resolution, which is way below 24MP in most cases. So, resolution is not my issue. Skin colour rendition, malleability of the raw files, punchy shadows and a homogenous white roll-off are. The SL2-S does all of that exceptionally well. 

[LocalHero1953]

23 hours ago, hansvons said:

As longs as this isn’t materializing, I’m happy with my Swiss Army knife SL2-S and my M6 for proper B&W.

 

+1. These announcements keep me curious about all the gear it would be nice to have to replace my Q3 43 and SL2-S (and film M/Barnacks), but none of it would allow me to take photos I can't take now, and none of it would take better photographs in the real world (considering holistically subject, composition, image quality, likes on instagram etc).

As an aside, I immediately notice the processing overhead of shooting 60mp images from the Q3 43 instead of 24mp from the SL2-S. Lightroom runs a bit slower (previews and updating), spare disk space drops quicker, and backups take longer. All of it easily solved by spending a bit more on RAM, processors and disk drives, but why should I if 24mp files can give me all I need?

Edited September 7 by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

On 9/6/2025 at 12:00 AM, S Maclean said:

I have the sl3 and had the X2D and 907x 

love then all, pound for pound Hasselblad does have better IQ imo. It’s just stellar. Clear, unmistakably Hasselblad.

But, I ended up selling all the Hasselblad equipment, because, in the end I always took the SL3 to complement my M’s. And I got a Q43 to add to it. 

Staying on one brand that suits my style of shooting, where I can interchange lenses, menus are consistent etc has more advantages to me than the extra IQ.  If I was working Professionally and had to deliver the best files possible then I would have kept the H set. 

I am hoping that Leica will re issue a medium format camera that can use the L lenses well. After all those APO primes to punch above their weight.

If they do, it would probably be in crop mode only, which would not be very helpful. 

[Stuart Richardson]

47 minutes ago, jaapv said:

If they do, it would probably be in crop mode only, which would not be very helpful. 

On the contrary, it would allow the camera to be universal. So from day one you could have a huge selection of lenses, including a wide range of zooms, telephotos, macros and any number of super speed lenses, super wides etc. If the camera is 100mp or more for MF, they would still be 60mp on 35mm. So a buyer could acquire the medium format lenses and have access to the full sensor for their standard focal lengths, but still have a full range of options they can use natively when they have a specialist need, or even just when they want a very compact lens. This would be a distinct advantage over the Hasselblad, for example, which has a smallish selection of focal lengths and no focal plane shutter. Or even the GFX, which has more available lenses, but still nothing like L mount. 

[S Maclean]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

If they do, it would probably be in crop mode only, which would not be very helpful. 

I used Leica m glass on the x2d non cropped. It worked. Albeit, only with electric shutter. 
 

Even then. Using the APO lineup in crop mode ( or sigma etc) still gives you every focal length you need… plus the telephotos 

imagjne also something like the 50’lux or sigma 85 cropped to MF ( about a 35 and a 50/60 fl)

Edited September 7 by S Maclean

[jaapv]

Well, yes, it would join the S line to the SL as being a universal camera as M lenses would be possible as well., but the extended possibilities would only be of interest to a limited group of users. I don’t think it would work the other  way around.  There would be little advantage for an SL3  owner to use an S body instead. I don’t know the register diss though. If you can adapt an S lens to an SL, can you adapt an L lens to an S technically? 

[S Maclean]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Well, yes, it would join the S line to the SL as being a universal camera as M lenses would be possible as well., but the extended possibilities would only be of interest to a limited group of users. I don’t think it would work the other  way around.  There would be little advantage for an SL3  owner to use an S body instead. 

Same advantage as using an x2d . It will probably be around 100 pm and medium format. Which means also larger pixels ( not only count)

MF still does have its IQ advantages.

[jaapv]

Yes if used as MF. A lens with a smaller coverage circle will only use an ff sized sensor crop. A MF 100 MP sensor has the same pixel pitch as a 60 MP ff sensor. So no larger pixels. 
The Leica S has a flange distance of 53 mm. You cannot even fit an R lens on there. The SL has a flange distance of 20 mm… Not even usable as a macro lens, more like micro. 

[Stuart Richardson]

20 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes if used as MF. A lens with a smaller coverage circle will only use an ff sized sensor crop. A MF 100 MP sensor has the same pixel pitch as a 60 MP ff sensor. So no larger pixels. 
The Leica S has a flange distance of 53 mm. You cannot even fit an R lens on there. The SL has a flange distance of 20 mm… Not even usable as a macro lens, more like micro. 

Jaap, you can look into it in the S forum, but Leica has telegraphed that an S4 would be fully compatible with L mount lenses. The original S camera was an SLR, but the new one would be mirrorless, so the mount is likely to change and the old lenses would use an adapter. 

I think the idea is that you can have your cake and eat it too: You have the advantages of medium format when you want them, as well as the capabilities of 35mm when you need them. I think this route makes sense for Leica...even as a replacement for an SL3 which, frankly, seems to have struggled to differentiate itself from its less expensive peers. They could keep the S line of the the SL system (SL2S, SL3S etc) as unchanged and 35mm only at the lower price for people who don't care about high resolution. A carefully considered S4 that had all the advantages of the SL3 but also the ability to use medium format would be a better answer to the challenges posed by Hasselblad and Fuji, while allowing Leica to focus on some of their greatest strengths: image quality, lens design and cross platform compatibility. 

Edited September 7 by Stuart Richardson

[jaapv]

That would indeed mean that the existing S lenses will need an adapter. It will be interesting to see how Leica will pull this one off. It would mean that the new S mount would have a flange distance of about 15 mm which will create a challenging lens design hurdle. The exit pupil will need to be very far forward and the bajonet very wide. As for SL lenses in this context, it would be the same situation as TL lenses on the SL. I don’t think that it will be more than an interesting extra feature for a small group of owners, but it would fit into Leica’s vision of compatibility. With some other mirrorless brands and MF brands too. 

[Stuart Richardson]

57 minutes ago, jaapv said:

That would indeed mean that the existing S lenses will need an adapter. It will be interesting to see how Leica will pull this one off. It would mean that the new S mount would have a flange distance of about 15 mm which will create a challenging lens design hurdle. The exit pupil will need to be very far forward and the bajonet very wide. As for SL lenses in this context, it would be the same situation as TL lenses on the SL. I don’t think that it will be more than an interesting extra feature for a small group of owners, but it would fit into Leica’s vision of compatibility. With some other mirrorless brands and MF brands too. 

Without fulling derailing the thread, I think there are a number of different ways they could achieve it, including using the L mount itself (which seems likely to me at least). Leica has a long track record of making spectacular lenses around design constraints (just look at the M), and perhaps this would be no different. Since I am not an optical engineer, I am not sure what is possible in this realm...just relaying what Leica was hinting. Of course, this may never happen. As for the S lenses, there already is an S to L adapter...I am not sure if it cuts into the image circle at all though.

I do think it is a bit different than the TL situation though, as the difference between their capabilities is greater. APS-C is a 1.5 or 1.6x crop to 35mm, whereas 35mm to Leica S is a 1.25x crop. In other words the difference between APS-C and 35mm is substantially larger than between 35mm and the S/Hasselblad/GFX. There are still benefits to the larger sensor, but the difference is not as big as it is between APS and 35mm. APS-C size is fairly limited in terms of resolution, tonality and noise handling, at least in a professional context. Also the available selection of TL lenses was limited and the best lenses were similar in size to full frame lenses from Sigma and Panasonic, for example. It will do some jobs, but not all. On the other hand, 35mm is high enough resolution now for nearly any tasks a photographer might find themselves in, but the additional sensor area of MF opens up improved tonality, lower noise, higher resolution and a medium format look to the lenses.

Anyway, I am prattling on, but I think that given how many people have embraced the Hasselblad and GFX lineups, I don't think medium format is any more "niche" at this point than someone choosing an SL at all. The biggest factor in making it niche or not will be the pricing. Knowing Leica, my guess is that its pricing hubris will make it set the price too high for it to be embraced by most photographers.

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[jaapv]

I think that the L adapter for S lenses would create vignetting on a medium format sensor, but that would be for Leica to solve. 
Speaking as moderator If people want I could happily split this discussion into the S forum, but this whole thread should not be in the SL forum. I think I’ll move it into the digital forum, it is more at home there