The second miniature revolution

[derleicaman]

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Hello William, this is quite interesting, and hopefully we will learn more about this. This reinforces my belief that M875 served as an exposure meter for the Leitz Cine camera Barnack was hired by Leitz to work on. At some point, Barnack had his "Ah ha" moment to develop his exposure meter M875 into the Ur. As Georg Mann called it in his article in Leica Historica on M875, it was the Mother of the Ur!

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[willeica]

6 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Hello William, this is quite interesting, and hopefully we will learn more about this. This reinforces my belief that M875 served as an exposure meter for the Leitz Cine camera Barnack was hired by Leitz to work on. At some point, Barnack had his "Ah ha" moment to develop his exposure meter M875 into the Ur. As Georg Mann called it in his article in Leica Historica on M875, it was the Mother of the Ur!

I do believe that M875 was a film tester associated with the cine camera which is on display in the Ernst Leitz Museum. What would be useful would be evidence about film testing/exposure practices in the cine industry around that time. If somebody could look at U.S. Pat. 1527285 there might be a description of use in there.

As for the father/mother of the Ur-Leica, I have an open mind about that.

William 

[PG Black nickel]

The precursor of 35 mm, I think, is Jules Richard's Homeos, patented in 1913, just before World War 1, so sales of this camera were postponed until 1920... It's a stereo camera using 35 mm perforated film on reels. It's a very complex piece of engineering equipment, sold at the time at a very high price, and in fact very few were sold (some say 1,500 units, but I've never seen a number over 300!).

Philippe

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[willeica]

46 minutes ago, PG Black nickel said:

The precursor of 35 mm, I think, is Jules Richard's Homeos, patented in 1913, just before World War 1, so sales of this camera were postponed until 1920... It's a stereo camera using 35 mm perforated film on reels. It's a very complex piece of engineering equipment, sold at the time at a very high price, and in fact very few were sold (some say 1,500 units, but I've never seen a number over 300!).

Philippe

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks Philippe. I have catalogued a number of Jules Richard cameras in a collection here in Dublin and this lovely Homeos item has a similar appearance to the others I have seen. See the Jules Richard Verascope below

There are 43 early 35mm cameras over the two pages linked here https://corsopolaris.net/supercameras/early/early_135.html  , many of which predate the Leica. 

Leitz was not alone in wanting to develop a 35mm camera, but it was perhaps the most successful in the long term of any company, which attempted to do this.

William 

 

Edited August 26 by willeica

[PG Black nickel]

Yes, William, Leitz has succeeded in going industrial, while the others have remained in the artisanal stage!

[pgk]

2 hours ago, willeica said:

Leitz was not alone in wanting to develop a 35mm camera, but it was perhaps the most successful in the long term of any company, which attempted to do this.

The key elements of design, timing and usability were all in place, as was the ability to produce and market the camera with a very viable lens. We tend to see success in terms of longevity and this is undoubtedly the case of Leica. None of the other businesses which your link to early 35mm cameras shows (with perhaps the exception of Kodak) have survived, although several of them are names I would recognise as they certainly continued to produce photographic equipment for some time. Interesting photographic history though.

[BernardC]

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One thing that is mind-boggling about these early roll film cameras is that the basic design is still being used in new cameras. Here's an example that "kick-started" a few weeks ago:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/customcamerabuilding/panoramic-617-612-4x5-5x7-and-8x10-point-and-shoot-camera/rewards#reward-UmV3YXJkLVVtVjNZWEprTFRFd05qWXhORFUy

(I can't vouch for the cameras, but I've purchased lens boards and other accessories from the maker in the past.)

It has become a cliche to say that a camera is just a light-tight box, but it's just as true now as it was 110 years ago.

[willeica]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

The key elements of design, timing and usability were all in place, as was the ability to produce and market the camera with a very viable lens. We tend to see success in terms of longevity and this is undoubtedly the case of Leica. None of the other businesses which your link to early 35mm cameras shows (with perhaps the exception of Kodak) have survived, although several of them are names I would recognise as they certainly continued to produce photographic equipment for some time. Interesting photographic history though.

Kodak is the most common name arising in the history of photography, but it is now no more as regards cameras. It tended to rely on a dominant or monopoly stance and also tended to buy up competitors. While doing these things may make a company look superficially strong, they are actually a sign of weakness. Leica nearly went under several times, but it has a had to innovate in order to thrive and survive.

Going back a hundred years or more the essential genius in Barnack's simple design was that it was capable of being repaired and adapted. In more recent years Leica has 'stuck to its knitting' but has innovated as well. It is no wonder that the company still survives in 2025. 

William 

[roydonian]

21 hours ago, willeica said:

 If somebody could look at U.S. Pat. 1527285 there might be a description of use in there.

I have a copy of this patent..

Edited August 26 by roydonian

[roydonian]

I've just read it briefly. The only description of use is as follows:

"One or more exposures of the scene or any number of exposures of different, selected scenes may be made and then the strip of exposed film will be developed, in a man­ner well understood in the photographic art, so that the operator can ascertain whether or not the size of the diaphragm aperture, the illumination and the focusing of the lens, are correct for production of the mo­tion picture negative film to be subsequently exposed to the scene or scenes which have been recorded on the film.

"Also the director may view the exposed film, or have positives printed from the negative film and then have the images on the positive projected on to a screen, so that he may judge of the suitability of the set­ting for portrayal of the scene to be re­corded by the motion picture camera.

"If the size of the diaphragm aperture, or the degree of illumination are not correct, or if the director does not approve of the location, alterations will be made in an ef­fort to remedy the defect or defects and other exposures will be made and the film developed; and these operations will be re­peated until the degree of lighting is cor­rect and the location meets with the ap­proval of the director. The motion picture camera, not shown, will then be set up in the same location as occupied by the camera and the diaphragm adjusted to correspond with the adjustment of the diaphragm of this camera, as noted at the time that the successful exposures were made, and the actors will take their positions. Then the photographing of the scene with the motion picture camera will take place in a manner well understood in the motion picture art.

"It is obvious that the invention may be used independently of motion picture pho­tography to make the ordinary negatives."

Edited August 26 by roydonian

[roydonian]

The opening paragraphs of the patent read:

"To all whom it may concern:

"Be it known that I, Karl W. Thalhammer, a citizen of Austria, having declared my intention of becoming a citizen of the United States, residing at Los Angeles, in the county of Los Angeles, State of Cali­fornia, have invented a new and useful Camera, of which the following is a specifi­cation.

"This invention relates to cameras of the type capable of employing roll or strip film, and an object of the invention is to produce a camera which can be conveniently used for various purposes in connection with mo­tion picture work and also independently to take pictures such as are produced by the ordinary type of camera.

"Another object of the invention is to pro­vide a camera which is of convenient form for use in connection with the selection of "locations" or, in other words, the setting in which motion picture scenes are to be en­acted.

"Another object is to provide a camera of this description which can be conveniently used for ascertaining the correct illumina­tion of the object or objects which are to en­ter into the series of "exposures" on a mo­tion picture film.

"Another object is to provide a camera in which focusing and the degree of illumina­tion can be readily observed directly on the film.

"Another object is to make provision for observing the focusing and the degree of illumination without exposing any of the film while so observing."

 

I can send the whole document as a PDF to anyone who wants it.  Just send me a private message giving your email address.

 

[willeica]

3 hours ago, roydonian said:

The opening paragraphs of the patent read:

"To all whom it may concern:

"Be it known that I, Karl W. Thalhammer, a citizen of Austria, having declared my intention of becoming a citizen of the United States, residing at Los Angeles, in the county of Los Angeles, State of Cali­fornia, have invented a new and useful Camera, of which the following is a specifi­cation.

 

"This invention relates to cameras of the type capable of employing roll or strip film, and an object of the invention is to produce a camera which can be conveniently used for various purposes in connection with mo­tion picture work and also independently to take pictures such as are produced by the ordinary type of camera.

 

"Another object of the invention is to pro­vide a camera which is of convenient form for use in connection with the selection of "locations" or, in other words, the setting in which motion picture scenes are to be en­acted.

 

"Another object is to provide a camera of this description which can be conveniently used for ascertaining the correct illumina­tion of the object or objects which are to en­ter into the series of "exposures" on a mo­tion picture film.

 

"Another object is to provide a camera in which focusing and the degree of illumina­tion can be readily observed directly on the film.

 

"Another object is to make provision for observing the focusing and the degree of illumination without exposing any of the film while so observing."

 

 

 

 

I can send the whole document as a PDF to anyone who wants it.  Just send me a private message giving your email address.

 

 

 

Thanks Douglas for that information. I have sent you my email address so that you can send me the PDF.

Based on these extracts it would seem that Tahlhammer intended that his camera be used the same way that Barnack probably used the item known as M875 as a light meter for his cine camera. I have some knowledge about early light meters, having recently catalogued quite a few of them going back to the 1880s. They had a degree of accuracy, but factors such as UV light and even the latitude and time of the year could cause issues. However, for a lit scene in a film where you would be about to expose large lengths of 35mm film it made absolute sense to expose a few frames of 35mm film to test the exposure at a number of different apertures, using a shutter speed which was close to that on the cine camera. 

William 

Edited August 26 by willeica

[roydonian]

OK - here it the patent.

patent.pdf

Edited August 27 by roydonian

[nitroplait]

37 minutes ago, roydonian said:

OK - here it the patent.

patent.pdf 774.09 kB · 1 download

5 years from filing to granting of the patent seems long.

[zeitz]

23 hours ago, willeica said:

the most common name arising in the history of photography, but it is now no more as regards cameras. It tended to rely on a dominant or monopoly stance and also tended to buy up competitors.

I thought you were talking about the Carl Zeiss Stifftung.  Remember Barnack worked for Zeiss, and his concept was rejected by Zeiss before he went to Leitz.  Would Zeiss still be making cameras if they had created the Zeica camera?

[roydonian]

4 hours ago, nitroplait said:

5 years from filing to granting of the patent seems long.

I have sometimes seen similar timescales when researching late 20th century patents

[willeica]

1 hour ago, zeitz said:

I thought you were talking about the Carl Zeiss Stifftung.  Remember Barnack worked for Zeiss, and his concept was rejected by Zeiss before he went to Leitz.  Would Zeiss still be making cameras if they had created the Zeica camera?

Kodak was bigger than all of them in the photography field. The one thing that Zeiss and Kodak had in common was an appetite for devouring potential competitors.

William 

 

 

[Roland Zwiers]

On 8/26/2025 at 8:18 PM, willeica said:

Kodak is the most common name arising in the history of photography, but it is now no more as regards cameras. It tended to rely on a dominant or monopoly stance and also tended to buy up competitors. While doing these things may make a company look superficially strong, they are actually a sign of weakness. Leica nearly went under several times, but it has a had to innovate in order to thrive and survive.

Going back a hundred years or more the essential genius in Barnack's simple design was that it was capable of being repaired and adapted. In more recent years Leica has 'stuck to its knitting' but has innovated as well. It is no wonder that the company still survives in 2025. 

William 

William,

Thank you again for your observations.

I posted this contribution on the second miniature revolution so as to clarify matters that are not so clear in post-1950 Leica literature.
It concerns the relative contributions of Oskar Barnack and the (Ur) Leica to the miniaturisation of hand cameras since the 1880s-1890s or so.

This year we celebrate the appearance of the Leica I in 1925.
It is indeed proper to mark March 1925 as the start of the second miniature revolution.
But in my analysis, this second revolution was preceded by an earlier one.

The first miniature revolution of the 1880s/1890s has three standard bearers:

·       The French miniature cameras that used 4,5x6cm plates and 4,5x10,7cm plates for stereo negatives of 4x4cm

·       The Kodak roll film cameras; some early roll film cameras already had very small negatives!

·       The 35mm cine negative film with frames of 18x24mm; a photographic picture made from a single 18x24mm frame was called ‘a still’.

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[Roland Zwiers]

Oskar Barnack in the first miniature revolution

While working for Zeiss Palmos and Ica in the period 1902-1910 Oskar Barnack was in the middle of this first miniature revolution.
This means that he was fully aware of already existing ideas and example cameras;

·       The concept ‘Small negative, big print’ (this is the subject of a separate article)

·       The 6x9 Film Palmos of 1900 (according to his colleague at Zeiss Palmos this camera inspired Oskar Barnack to equip the (Ur)Leica with a focal plane shutter).

·       The prototype Minigraph of 1906-1907 (according to his colleague at Zeiss Palmos this camera inspired Oskar Barnack to double the negative size to 24x36mm)

[Roland Zwiers]

The second miniature revolution started with the Leica I in March 1925

But this second revolution was not exclusively carried by the Leica or by 35mm film.
Equally important were the contributions by:

·       the Rolleiflex in 1929 and 1932 (establishing the 6x6 standard on 120-film) and

·       the Kine Exakta in 1936 (introducing the modern SLR camera with interchangeable lenses).

In my analysis the second miniature revolution was more or less complete in 1940.
That is not to say that there were no further improvements to the miniature camera after 1940.
But these further improvements were variations on themes that had already been introduced by the Leica, the Rolleiflex and the Kine Exakta.