Is an M11 in low light working for a spoiled Q3 photographer?

[Chris_Jenks]

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As en ex Q2 owner I think you should also consider the Q3‘s autofocus not just IBIS. Being able to shoot wide open without holding the viewfinder to your eye at F1.7 is a real bonus in low light. I use zone focus quite a bit with my M11 and, while this generally serves me pretty well, at say F8, it’s not really an option with the lens wide open. 

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[Photoworks]

Q3 is a nice little camera; the lens is actually wider than 28mm, it is more like a 26mm. It would be difficult to find a comparable lens for the M11.

If all you shoot are the images from the samples, i would stay with q3.
To me, the M11 and 28mm Summilux is a better fit. 
The M lens to the Q lens is very different, wide open, it has the summilux magic with center focus and light vignetting, and a very sharp lens across the frame at 2.8.
The Q lenses, even wide open, seem to have lots of details and sharpness across the frame, a bit less character. Considering that you are using the resolution for different crops, it is a benefit.

Now the benefit of an M camera is the better shooting experience, the joy of photography is pure.

But you did ask about the shutter more than anything:
I found that the M11 shows more motion blur than the M10 or the M10-R. 
Occasionally, I see motion blur at 1/125. I have set my minimal shutter speed to 1/250 and it works.
At times i will do a drag shot of a bike on the street, that is at 1/15 and it is nice.

A shutter is, in effect, generating more vibration than the leaf shutter of the Q3. The opening and closing sound difference should be a giveaway already.

[Alexander108]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

Q3 is a nice little camera; the lens is actually wider than 28mm, it is more like a 26mm. It would be difficult to find a comparable lens for the M11.

If all you shoot are the images from the samples, i would stay with q3.
To me, the M11 and 28mm Summilux is a better fit. 
The M lens to the Q lens is very different, wide open, it has the summilux magic with center focus and light vignetting, and a very sharp lens across the frame at 2.8.
The Q lenses, even wide open, seem to have lots of details and sharpness across the frame, a bit less character. Considering that you are using the resolution for different crops, it is a benefit.

Now the benefit of an M camera is the better shooting experience, the joy of photography is pure.

But you did ask about the shutter more than anything:
I found that the M11 shows more motion blur than the M10 or the M10-R. 
Occasionally, I see motion blur at 1/125. I have set my minimal shutter speed to 1/250 and it works.
At times i will do a drag shot of a bike on the street, that is at 1/15 and it is nice.

A shutter is, in effect, generating more vibration than the leaf shutter of the Q3. The opening and closing sound difference should be a giveaway already.

Thank you. This fits into the overall picture. As much as I'd love to own an M11 it would not make sense for the majority of my photography. And let's be honest. The Q3 is a great camera with a great lens. I often add a little bit of vignetting in post because I like the look. I also shoot at short shutter speeds (of course). Here's an example (Q3 shot at 1/500s, f/8, ISO 200 btw).

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BTW that guy missed four times which allowed me to capture this.

An M1x with IBIS and EVF will be the one for me as it would give me the flexibility of interchangeable lens with the advantage of a modern camera. 

 

Edited August 9 by Alexander108
Typo

[Bikie John]

2 hours ago, Alexander108 said:

Thank you. This fits into the overall picture. As much as I'd love to own an M11 it would not make sense for the majority of my photography. And let's be honest. The Q3 is a great camera with a great lens. I often add a little bit of vignetting in post because I like the look. I also shoot at short shutter speeds (of course). Here's an example (Q3 shot at 1/500s, f/8, ISO 200 btw).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

BTW that guy missed four times which allowed me to capture this.

An M1x with IBIS and EVF will be the one for me as it would give me the flexibility of interchangeable lens with the advantage of a modern camera. 

 

Not relevant to the discussion - but I like the photo!

John

[jakontil]

The Q also use leaf shutter which definitely help to reduce camera shakes

[jgeenen]

Am 6.8.2025 um 12:26 schrieb lct:

At slow shutter speeds and 60mp, the M11 would add camera shake blur

This is a very common myth. In fact shutter shake mainly affects (if at all) shutter speeds close to but below flash sync speeds. Why? Shutter shake affects the first milliseconds of the exposure only - it fades away quickly. When the shutter speed is short, most of the picture is (due to the focal plane shutter mode of operation) is exposed when the shake has already died away. If the shutter speed is long, only a short part of the total exposure is affected to shutter shake. (But don’t mix this up with tripod vibrations caused by shutter or mirror slap - those don’t fade away that quickly). The exposure times prone to shutter shake are from 1/30 to 1/180 (with 1/180 the worst). Some MFT users will remember the complaints with shutter shake of the early E-M1 (which was later solved by firmware optimization).

there is another (more psychological) affect I observe with the M11 at slow shutter speeds: while the first cutter movement is comparingly noisy, the second curtain is almost quiet. I tend to believe with shutter speed of 1/8 or 1/15 is already over when I hear the big „click“ but then the faint closing click chimes in…

[lct]

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1 hour ago, jgeenen said:

This is a very common myth [...]

Not my experience i must say. Camera shake blur is obvious when comparing photos taken handheld with and without IBIS. Here on a 40mp Sony and the effect is similar on the 60mp M11. Reason why i set my shutter speeds to 1/(2f)s with the latter but better photogs than me go up to 1/(3f)s or even 1/(4f)s on this forum.

[jgeenen]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb lct:

Not my experience i must say. Camera shake blur is obvious when comparing photos taken handheld with and without IBIS. Here on a 40mp Sony and the effect is similar on the 60mp M11. Reason why i set my shutter speeds to 1/(2f)s with the latter but better photogs than me go up to 1/(3f)s or even 1/(4f)s on this forum.

 

May be I misinterpreted you. You wrote "At slow shutter speeds and 60mp, the M11 would add camera shake blur", which I interpreted as something that the M11 adds (you remember the famous discussion around shutter shake - does the M11 shutter operation (close-open-close) adds more blur to the photo as the M10 shutter operation (open-close). 

But if you are referring to photographer shake (something that the photographer adds to the camera, an M11, a Sony, a Q3 or a Plaubel Makina), then I absolutely agree with you - use OIS, IBIS, EIS (where available) or short shutter speeds - the shorter the better. And certainly the 60 Megapixels allow magnifications that make shake more visible than sensors with less resolution.

[Le Chef]

If you like the idea of shooting with an M, but don’t want to commit to large sums of money, look at the following: 

M240 or M10

Summicron 35mm v3

If that doesn’t work you can likely sell with minimal loss.

[Alexander108]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Le Chef:

If you like the idea of shooting with an M, but don’t want to commit to large sums of money, look at the following: 

M240 or M10

Summicron 35mm v3

If that doesn’t work you can likely sell with minimal loss.

This seems to be an interesting option. I saw an M10 for less than 4000 euros. Tempting. 

[Tseg]

There was a recent You Tube video that compared focal lengths with other brands that shows the Q3 43 is also closer to 40mm focal length.

Carrying a Q3 and a Q3 43 is actually quite a combo for day to day image capture capability.  With that said, as most know, the Q photographic experience is very different than an M.  Of course, the Q lenses are also excellent.   Cost differences between an M10 and M11 are nominal once one considers the cost of modern Leica glass that is the equivalent to that used in Q cameras.

Specific to low light, while the M hand held in low light does not have the same capability as a Q held in low light, a photographer should/will seek to optimize the capability of their equipment while creating art.  If just trying to document a scene in low light, use an iPhone with flash.

[Jeff S]

52 minutes ago, Tseg said:

There was a recent You Tube video that compared focal lengths with other brands that shows the Q3 43 is also closer to 40mm focal length.

 

 

[Knightspirit]

On 8/7/2025 at 12:17 AM, Alexander108 said:

Thank you all for your feedback. I thought so. 

Knowing that there are some things that may not work well for me, I would add the M11 immediately to my setup. I believe that it would be a great extension especially with additional lenses. The desire / urge to buy one is huuuuuge. I don't really know why. There is, however, one tiny aspect that keeps me from buying it. And this is the price-tag especially as I never owned an M system and I don't have lenses which easily leads to an investment for €12,000 to 15,000 for a decent set. I would not buy the 28mm as the Q3 covers that extremely well.

So I probably wait for the M12 with IBIS, EVF and tilt screen that may never come. But that would be the ideal camera for me. The perfect blend between modern technology and the traditional way of taking pictures. (But maybe I can buy a pre-owned M11, though)

I now have to convince myself that I don't need it! Which is true. Gear does not matter, right?

Here's one from 2009 taken with a (hold tight, Worshipers of the Leica Universe!) Casio Exilim Card EX-S770 with stunning 7.4MP f/3.3, 1/6s. It may not be a masterpiece, whites of the lamps are blown out, but I still like it. That was the kind of camera I had back then in the intermediate decades between the 1990ies with my Minolta SLRs and starting over 2014 with Canon DSLRs.

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Just get a used M11 - they aren't that expensive these days - I think I paid $6500 for mine. Don't discount the Voightlander lenses! They are quite good and not expensive. You can get fast ones too. Check out Light Lens Lab also for things like the 35mm F2 8 element (great lens). Just my 2¢

[Le Chef]

On 8/10/2025 at 8:17 AM, Tseg said:

There was a recent You Tube video that compared focal lengths with other brands that shows the Q3 43 is also closer to 40mm focal length.

Another YouTube “Shock! Horror! Drama Probe!” Quite likely true if you don’t use the in-camera lens corrections. But who would use the camera this way when Leica quite clearly say that the lens was designed using computer corrections to keep both size and cost manageable. 

[S Maclean]

On 8/7/2025 at 3:17 AM, Alexander108 said:

Thank you all for your feedback. I thought so. 

Knowing that there are some things that may not work well for me, I would add the M11 immediately to my setup. I believe that it would be a great extension especially with additional lenses. The desire / urge to buy one is huuuuuge. I don't really know why. There is, however, one tiny aspect that keeps me from buying it. And this is the price-tag especially as I never owned an M system and I don't have lenses which easily leads to an investment for €12,000 to 15,000 for a decent set. I would not buy the 28mm as the Q3 covers that extremely well.

So I probably wait for the M12 with IBIS, EVF and tilt screen that may never come. But that would be the ideal camera for me. The perfect blend between modern technology and the traditional way of taking pictures. (But maybe I can buy a pre-owned M11, though)

I now have to convince myself that I don't need it! Which is true. Gear does not matter, right?

Here's one from 2009 taken with a (hold tight, Worshipers of the Leica Universe!) Casio Exilim Card EX-S770 with stunning 7.4MP f/3.3, 1/6s. It may not be a masterpiece, whites of the lamps are blown out, but I still like it. That was the kind of camera I had back then in the intermediate decades between the 1990ies with my Minolta SLRs and starting over 2014 with Canon DSLRs.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

That camera exists, get an SL3 with an M adaptor. It has a  smaller form factor with an M lens than a Q and everything you are looking for.

On the other hand, my experience with the M is nothing but positive. Specially the Monochrome. I do have the Q43 and the SL3, they all serve different purposes.  The Q is the most handy for "all" purposes, it just feels like it takes the picture as you think about it. It's fast, light, accurate and dynamic.  The M allows me to craft images. It feels like I have to put the effort in without help from a gadget. I get what I put into it...and when it's good...it's perfect.  The SL3 is just a tool fopr perfection.  If you are not sure how an event, scene, shoot, model or cat is going to be shot, the SL will find the way. Not as fast as a Fuji or a Sony, so would not expect that type of performance, but image and experience-wise it's just like a Q +++

What will the M give you then? At least for me, it relaxes me, helps me focus and makes me feel like I AM the camera, I am the Photographer. There is nothing like it.

[S Maclean]

On 8/8/2025 at 7:43 PM, Photoworks said:

Q3 is a nice little camera; the lens is actually wider than 28mm, it is more like a 26mm. It would be difficult to find a comparable lens for the M11.

If all you shoot are the images from the samples, i would stay with q3.
To me, the M11 and 28mm Summilux is a better fit. 
The M lens to the Q lens is very different, wide open, it has the summilux magic with center focus and light vignetting, and a very sharp lens across the frame at 2.8.
The Q lenses, even wide open, seem to have lots of details and sharpness across the frame, a bit less character. Considering that you are using the resolution for different crops, it is a benefit.

Now the benefit of an M camera is the better shooting experience, the joy of photography is pure.

But you did ask about the shutter more than anything:
I found that the M11 shows more motion blur than the M10 or the M10-R. 
Occasionally, I see motion blur at 1/125. I have set my minimal shutter speed to 1/250 and it works.
At times i will do a drag shot of a bike on the street, that is at 1/15 and it is nice.

A shutter is, in effect, generating more vibration than the leaf shutter of the Q3. The opening and closing sound difference should be a giveaway already.

Same experience. The M11 does show more shutter/motion blur than the pther M's. I used to be happy at 1/125 and very happy at 250. Now, if I really want a tight shot on street (Mind you I often shoot while walking) I set it at 500. Which is ok on a sunny day with a lux lens. 1/500 is probably overkill, but I don't want ot think about it if I am just hunting for a quick shot.

I also never have an issue leaning against something for a long exposure if needed.

[Alexander108]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb S Maclean:

What will the M give you then? At least for me, it relaxes me, helps me focus and makes me feel like I AM the camera, I am the Photographer. There is nothing like it.

This is what I am hoping for. I am still looking what is possible with limited funds. As much as I'd love to walk into the Leica Store in Hamburg and walk out with an M11 and some lenses, it is just not feasible right now. I am looking into a preowned M10 option with a preowned lens as a starting point. I need to wait a bit until some funds are free.

[Stephencdean]

On 8/6/2025 at 10:16 AM, Alexander108 said:

First of all, there is a strong desire in my to buy an M11. I had the chance to look at it as a friend just bought it. He still owns an M6 and has a few great lenses. I never had an M and I would certainly need one lens or maybe two at the beginning. But I adore the "old fashioned" way of photography. I see that quite a few great street photographers use it.

My street photography often includes motion blur. Here's an example Q3, F/16, 1/13s, ISO 100 hand held. I sometimes even use an ND filter in daylight to achieve that.

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What I am really concerned about is image stabilization. It is not always about motion blur. When I look at my images I often shoot below 1/30s down to 1/4s or even longer hand held. I sometimes need to re shoot as the shot is not sharp but it generally works. Deep breath - click. Almost every low light situation is below 1/30s unless the scene dictates a faster SS.

BTW Focusing is the least I am concerned with. With zone focusing at f/8 setting the upper end to infinity I get everything in focus from 1.8m on (on my Q3 28mm). That may require some practicing but seems to be feasible for street photography. I am more a "fisher" so I wait for things to come and can focus beforehand.

Any thoughts and experiences would be appreciated. Working with a tripod for street photography is not an option for me. 

Hello, the Leica stores in UK offer a ‘test drive’ service. You advise them what you want to test, and after leaving a credit card impression, off you go. You could use your own SD card and take the images away with you for viewing at home. Might be best way to get real life answer without buying? Maybe similar in Germany?

Edited August 14 by Stephencdean

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[Alexander108]

Thank you for the great input. I eventually purchased an M10-M and a rather inexpensive and old (if there is such a thing in the Leica World) 35mm f/2 Summicron v3 lens as a starting point. Looking forward to start the M experience. 

Edited August 14 by Alexander108
Typo

[Derbyshire Man]

2 hours ago, Alexander108 said:

Thank you for the great input. I eventually purchased an M10-M and a rather inexpensive and old (if there is such a thing in the Leica World) 35mm f/2 Summicron v3 lens as a starting point. Looking forward to start the M experience. 

Perfect, I look forward to seeing the results. My favourite combo is one of the monochromes and a 35 or 40mm lens. Simplicity itself.