Rock solid - Summicron 35mm (11673)

[01maciel]

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There is obviously no dedicated thread for this lens, which is very common I believe and belongs in every camera bag. So, here it is.
I took the photo with an ND4 filter in the evening sun on my M10 at f/16 and 1/6s, ISO 100 and lens hood. The camera was standing on a small stone during the shot. Taken with the 2s self-timer to avoid camera shake. I couldn't get excited about this lens for a very long time. The longer I have it, the more I like it.
When I was looking for the lens online the other day, I saw that the price has gone up by around €700 since 2020 when I purchased it exactly 5 yrs ago. That smacks of an investment.

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[Essummi]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 01maciel:

There is obviously no dedicated thread for this lens, which is very common I believe and belongs in every camera bag. So, here it is.
I took the photo with an ND4 filter in the evening sun on my M10 at f/16 and 1/6s, ISO 100 and lens hood. The camera was standing on a small stone during the shot. Taken with the 2s self-timer to avoid camera shake. I couldn't get excited about this lens for a very long time. The longer I have it, the more I like it.
When I was looking for the lens online the other day, I saw that the price has gone up by around €700 since 2020 when I purchased it exactly 5 yrs ago. That smacks of an investment.

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At that time, the 35 apo came onto the market.... 

[Ecar]

7 hours ago, 01maciel said:

When I was looking for the lens online the other day, I saw that the price has gone up by around €700 since 2020 when I purchased it exactly 5 yrs ago. That smacks of an investment.

Inflation?

[01maciel]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Ecar:

Inflation?

Yes, that's right. For the most part. I've just looked up some data. If the price of the lens had only risen due to inflation from 2020 to 2024, the average inflation rate would be 5.25%. If you look at the real average inflation rate in this period (Germany), it's 3.9%. The difference corresponds to the real price increase. 
I always suspected it, Leica is not that expensive  

[lct]

9 hours ago, 01maciel said:

There is obviously no dedicated thread for this lens [...]

At least one:

 

[01maciel]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb lct:

At least one:

 

Thanks lct, I seem to have overlooked that. Then the lens has already been praised enough, hasn't it?🎆

[evikne]

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I would love to see a real-world bokeh comparison between this lens and the 35 APO.

If the difference is negligible, it might help me forget about the APO (or make me want it even more). 😉

[lct]

So far, besides 35/2 v2 and v3 i have no experience with, i feel the current 35/2 asph is only beaten by v1 in matter of bokeh so i am not tempted by the apo at all but bokeh is a subjective thing and my own tastes are of little interest to others anyway.

[jakontil]

I had the apo, it was a great lens probably greatest in the 35mm realm focal length.. but i stick with my 35 cron asph BP and probably i would lean more towards the lux for that matter with close focus

[don daniel]

I have owned and sold the Summicron 35mm ASPH. and the Summilux 35mm FLE (without close focus). Currently, I own the Apo-Summicron 35mm and the Summicron 35mm Version IV. The latter is the one I used exclusively during my two-week vacation stay in Sweden, and I deliberately chose not to take the Apo-SC.

It’s absolutely clear: the Apo is much sharper than any other 35mm lens for the Leica M. This stands out, especially wide open. Its bokeh is modern and creamy, and the colors are punchy. If you want to find faults with the Apo: it vignettes wide open and shows complex distortion. The distortion is immediately corrected in the DNG file upon importing into Lightroom, but it remains in JPGs.

The Summicron 35mm IV is already sharp in the center at maximum aperture, but stopping down benefits the edges. The bokeh of this "King of Bokeh" is harsher — it appears less artificial as a result. Completely soft bokeh can easily be produced digitally anyway. As a result, photos taken with the most expensive Leica lenses often differ hardly at all from those with digital tricks like fake bokeh. That’s easily done in Lightroom or directly on the iPhone.

What mainly makes me reach for the M11 paired with a non-APO 35mm is the lower weight. Personally, I already find lenses over 250g less than ideal on the light, black M11. The Apo weighs 300g. While lightweight, it still makes the camera front-heavy, much like a Summilux FLE. The SC 35 ASPH. remains well below that critical threshold. And the SC 35 IV actually weighs under 200g. It’s a delight to shoot with. The results have a natural look, not artificially smoothed. For reference, see the portrait my daughter took of me with the M11 and SC 35 IV. With the SC 35 ASPH., the bokeh would be a bit softer; with the Apo-SC, it would be totally creamy. But that doesn’t bother me—quite the contrary! By the way, the SC 35 IV has noticeably less distortion than the Apo-SC 35.

Photos taken with versions II and III of the SC should turn out similar to those with version IV.

The Apo also has the advantage of being able to focus very closely—you’ll need to use Live View for that.

Weighing all this, I get the impression: The Apo-35 is optimized for perfection. I also once owned the Apo-SC 50mm. The 35mm is even sharper than the 50mm. But for my photographic style in daily situations, I consider this sharpness and perfection unnecessary. The older SC 35mm models are sharp enough, especially when stopped down. They are lighter, and shooting with them is tremendous fun. When I show my pictures to others, no one points out any lack of technical perfection.

 

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[poli]

2 hours ago, don daniel said:

 

Weighing all this, I get the impression: The Apo-35 is optimized for perfection. I also once owned the Apo-SC 50mm. The 35mm is even sharper than the 50mm. But for my photographic style in daily situations, I consider this sharpness and perfection unnecessary. The older SC 35mm models are sharp enough, especially when stopped down. They are lighter, and shooting with them is tremendous fun. When I show my pictures to others, no one points out any lack of technical perfection.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights. This afternoon I was overthinking my 35mm's (Summicron 8e and summcron KOB) and considering if an Apo would be useful addition for both my m11 and m-a's. After my holidays, some of my landscape shots with the KOB could have been slightly more modern in retrospect (had some flare issues).

But after reading your experience I doubt if adding an APO would make sense. The KOB is incredibly light and handles great. The 8e is very nice for B&W. Perhaps a Summicron 11673 would be 'perfect' enough.

[evikne]

If I ever had the opportunity to buy an APO, it would be mainly because of the bokeh; I don't care so much about the sharpness (it's more than good enough anyway). 😉

Edited July 24 by evikne

[hansvons]

On 7/23/2025 at 10:47 PM, evikne said:

If the difference is negligible, it might help me forget about the APO (or make me want it even more). 😉

For the price of the 35mm APO M you could get an SL2-S and the 35mm APO SL used, which is in its performance in the realm of the best cine lenses money can buy. And like those it has lots of character from f/2-f-2.8. I use it for fashion and started shooting landscapes with it recently. It’s already sharp to the corners at f/2.4., has a remarkably long focus roll-off (not that cut-out, green screen feeling of modern high-performance 35s) and an astonishing sharpness without that bite. It renders faces flat (for a 35mm) and still produces tons of dimensionality. Colours can’t get better.

20 hours ago, jakontil said:

but i stick with my 35 cron asph BP and probably i would lean more towards the lux for that matter with close focus

I shoot mostly with my beloved workhorse Summicron 35mm ASPH v1 on my M6 and used it on the SL2-S for digital. It’s nowhere near the APO SL. However, it’s a classic Summicron on all accounts—only 2 stops faster in terms of corner sharpness than its predecessor, the V4/KOB. It shares  the quirky bent focal plane at f/2 - f/2.8 but without those muddy edges (love it!), flares similarly and intensively when provoked (totally vintage in that regard), but provides better contrast and overall sharpness, and less vignetting at open aperture. As all Leica 35mm primes, it produces that flatness and pop which I find unique and highly desirable (Zeiss cine lenses from the 70s and 80s had a similar look, only cooler in the magenta direction. Cooke 35mm S3 are quite similar, too, but faces look a tad wider. The Voigtlander Nokton 35mm MC does that too, no wonder it’s an old double Gauss design like Leica’s vintage Summicrons and Summiluxes). On the M, the 35mm Summicron ASPH is all I want. It has the advantage over its predecessor to provide at f/2 better contrast and sharpness without the strong vignetting of its predecessors, including Summiluxes. A virtue I find on film indispensable because of the mediums’ hunger for light. 

Edited July 25 by hansvons

[don daniel]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb hansvons:

On the M, the 35mm Summicron ASPH is all I want. It has the advantage over its predecessor to provide at f/2 better contrast and sharpness without the strong vignetting of its predecessors, including Summiluxes. A virtue I find on film indispensable because of the mediums’ hunger for light. 

I can very much relate to that. I’d like to add that the Summicron 35mm Asph. is noticeably softer towards the edges when shot wide open compared to the Summilux 35mm FLE, even when the Summilux is also set at f/1.4. Here’s the thing: the Summicron 35mm IV (KOB) is already soft outside the center when used wide open, and its bokeh tends to be rather harsh. The Summicron 35mm Asph. just gets soft in the corners when shot wide open. This becomes apparent if you’re used to the Summilux, or if you’re familiar with the 28mm M lenses—whose current versions all deliver sharper corners than the 35mm. The 35mm Asph. does have somewhat smoother bokeh than the IV KOB, but highlights towards the corners can still appear a bit harsh. The Apo-Summicron 35mm, by contrast, is extremely sharp right into the corners when used wide open and delivers buttery-smooth bokeh. However, despite its compact size, it’s heavy and simply exorbitantly expensive.

Edited July 25 by don daniel

[01maciel]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb don daniel:

The Apo-35 is optimized for perfection.

Uh, the praise is now going in a completely different direction. I am not perfect, my photography is far from perfection so I stick to the 35mm Asph. So there's no reason to change to the APO. But if weight and size don't count, then the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 is (for me) the one and only. It's an insider tip, please keep it to yourselves. Rendering and colours are unbeatable.

[don daniel]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb 01maciel:

Uh, the praise is now going in a completely different direction. I am not perfect, my photography is far from perfection so I stick to the 35mm Asph. So there's no reason to change to the APO. But if weight and size don't count, then the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 is (for me) the one and only. It's an insider tip, please keep it to yourselves. Rendering and colours are unbeatable.

So, the 35mm Asph. is not good enough? 

[01maciel]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb don daniel:

So, the 35mm Asph. is not good enough? 

No, no. The lens is more than good enough for me.

[evikne]

…

Edited July 25 by evikne

[evikne]

On 7/24/2025 at 1:49 PM, don daniel said:

I have owned and sold the Summicron 35mm ASPH. and the Summilux 35mm FLE (without close focus). Currently, I own the Apo-Summicron 35mm and the Summicron 35mm Version IV. The latter is the one I used exclusively during my two-week vacation stay in Sweden, and I deliberately chose not to take the Apo-SC.

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Great shot! So this was taken with Summicron v4? It actually reminds me of one of the advertising photos for the 35 APO! 😄

Edited July 25 by evikne

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[don daniel]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb evikne:

Great shot! So this was taken with Summicron v4? It actually reminds me of one of the advertising photos for the 35 APO! 😄

Exact. This was taken with v4! And it does not look like taken with the Apo. But I can show you, how this would look. A simple move in LR does the trick. Watch the bokeh! 

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