Leica Forum: Only Leica pictures or also L-Mount?

[David Cantor]

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7 minutes ago, evikne said:

I refrain from giving likes to photos when this is omitted. And on the flip side, is there any reason to keep it a secret? This is an equipment-related forum, so I think what is used is always important information.

It’s a personal thing. If I admire a photograph, I give a like and don’t really care much about the camera and lens used. But it’s the compulsion aspect that is my main objection, not keeping my equipment a secret. It happens to be a Leica CL and a Leica 35mm lens whose name I forget, but you will not find that on my threads.

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[pippy]

23 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Not quite. We have been accepting L mount images for some years now.   Manufacture should- under the present system- be read as “ Leica (AKA L mount) related.”The question raised by Andreas is whether we should make a more clear division.

Ah. In which case I might have misunderstood the question as-raised.

Yes; a sub-forum dedicated to L-Mount equipment would be a good thing for everyone.

Philip.

[fotografr]

31 minutes ago, evikne said:

I refrain from giving likes to photos when this is omitted. And on the flip side, is there any reason to keep it a secret? This is an equipment-related forum, so I think what is used is always important information.

I shot M film cameras with Leica lenses for 25 years before the M8 brought me into the digital world. When I go back through my old negatives and select images to scan and post, I quite often can't recall the exact lens I used. Telling the viewer what M camera was used without identifying the lens seems rather useless, so I don't include that information.

[evikne]

13 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I shot M film cameras with Leica lenses for 25 years before the M8 brought me into the digital world. When I go back through my old negatives and select images to scan and post, I quite often can't recall the exact lens I used. Telling the viewer what M camera was used without identifying the lens seems rather useless, so I don't include that information.

If there was a drop-down menu or similar when uploading images, there could, for example, be a choice for “do not remember”. But it's unlikely that we'll see anything like that.

Actually, I wish the forum could automatically extract and display EXIF information from the images, but with so much analog equipment it would probably not be very appropriate and would require a lot of manual input anyway.

[LocalHero1953]

Since I scan negatives with a digital camera, the EXIF data could be misleading!

[farnz]

Where do pictures that have been shot with a Xiaomi mobile phone (or previously Huawei) that is equipped with Leica 'cameras' and lenses fit into in this discussion?

Pete.

Edited Wednesday at 12:16 PM by farnz

[fotografr]

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Let's flip the script on this discussion for a moment. If we are to allow images made with any L mount camera and/or lens, what about unrestricted posting of images made with any M mount camera and/or lens? We now have the Pixii camera with a native M mount. Do we allow images made with the Pixii and Voigtlander M lenses? There is no actual Leica product there--just the M mount. What about images made using the Ricoh GXR M with a Thypoch Simera lens? Epson RD 1S with a Light Lens Lab M mount lens? Same situation. No Leica product used at all.

If we are going to accept unrestricted L mount image posting, then we must also allow unrestricted M mount image posting. At that point this forum is no longer the Leica Forum.

[fotografr]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Since I scan negatives with a digital camera, the EXIF data could be misleading!

The EXIF data will only identify the type of scanner, in this case a camera. You're correct that it could be misleading.

Edited Wednesday at 11:53 AM by fotografr

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

For me that is a step too far. There is no connection to the L alliance thus not to Leica.  The exclusivity of the M mount ended when the patent expired. 

It may be a step too far for you, but that can't be easily justified with a quote from me taken out of context.

It's not about alliances or "patent exclusivity" for a mount, but rather about the relevance of the lenses for that mount (demonstrated via an adapter), which can then also be used on a Leica camera.

If Sigma lenses are accepted on Panasonic cameras here due to a certain openness of the L-mount, then I don't understand why it should be any different with the M-mount.

But yes, some people feel more comfortable in their own tightly fenced territory, and the question here is probably just whether they represent the majority of users of this forum.

[jaapv]

14 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Let's flip the script on this discussion for a moment. If we are to allow images made with any L mount camera and/or lens, what about unrestricted posting of images made with any M mount camera and/or lens? We now have the Pixii camera with a native M mount. Do we allow images made with the Pixii and Voigtlander M lenses? There is no actual Leica product there--just the M mount. What about images made using the Ricoh GXR M with a Thypoch Simera lens? Epson RD 1S with a Light Lens Lab M mount lens? Same situation. No Leica product used at all.

If we are going to accept unrestricted L mount image posting, then we must also allow unrestricted M mount image posting. At that point this forum is no longer the Leica Forum.

Why should we allow unrestricted M mount posting? The M mount is an open mount that Leica has no connection with, except by being the original designer, the same applies to screw mount gear. The patent has since long expired.  This argument only applies to coded M mount gear, which is the only patent Leica holds in this context.  

[UliWer]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb 3D-Kraft.com:

But yes, some people feel more comfortable in their own tightly fenced territory

I am not so tightly fenced that i am restricted to look into this Forum when I want to know how any branded lens works on any other branded camera when it might also work on an M camera 

[jaapv]

20 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

It may be a step too far for you, but that can't be easily justified with a quote from me taken out of context.

It's not about alliances or "patent exclusivity" for a mount, but rather about the relevance of the lenses for that mount (demonstrated via an adapter), which can then also be used on a Leica camera.

If Sigma lenses are accepted on Panasonic cameras here due to a certain openness of the L-mount, then I don't understand why it should be any different with the M-mount.

But yes, some people feel more comfortable in their own tightly fenced territory, and the question here is probably just whether they represent the majority of users of this forum.

If we do not set a limit (fence?) we could as well change LUF to UF. The M mount is not part of  any Leica connection (Except for the coding and original introduction in 1954) In the L mount Alliance Leica is an influential partner. Thus we can accept  this as a part of the Leica universe.  And yes, when used on a Leica camera via an adapter you can use any relevant lens, obviously. 

[fotografr]

14 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why should we allow unrestricted M mount posting? The M mount is an open mount that Leica has no connection with, except by being the original designer, the same applies to screw mount gear. The patent has since long expired.  This argument only applies to coded M mount gear, which is the only patent Leica holds in this context.  

Why? Because this question seems to be all about the type of mount. Do you think the L mount patent will never expire? Same for the codes.

Edited Wednesday at 12:20 PM by fotografr

[jaapv]

When that expires we will see again. Whether Leica or we will exist by then is another matter. No, not the mount as such. The question is whether the gear is within the Leica sphere of influence. And that is expressed in the L Alliance.

[LUF Admin]

Folks.

If we try to spin each argument ad infinitum we'll never reach common ground.

We are not talking about philosophical principles but about pragmatic rules.

If we decide that L-Mount is OK but non-Leica-M-Mount is not – than that’s perfectly OK.

Let's agree that there will never be a perfect rule which covers all extremes and hypothetical cases in the future.

Andreas

[fotografr]

21 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why should we allow unrestricted M mount posting? The M mount is an open mount that Leica has no connection with, except by being the original designer, the same applies to screw mount gear. The patent has since long expired.  This argument only applies to coded M mount gear, which is the only patent Leica holds in this context.  

I had one of the original 7-Artisans 50mm/f1.1 lenses which came with a code that identified it as a 50mm Leica Noctilux. Should that code enable me to put the lens on a Pix ii and legitimately post images on this forum that were taken with the combo?

It's also possible, as I'm sure we are all aware, to have any non-Leica M mount lens coded.

Edited Wednesday at 12:27 PM by fotografr

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

If we do not set a limit (fence?) we could as well change LUF to UF.

What you have in mind, is a LF.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

The question is whether the gear is within the Leica sphere of influence. And that is expressed in the L Alliance.

...fences.

[LUF Admin]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The question is whether the gear is within the Leica sphere of influence.

This is a possible criterion. Not necessarily the decisive one.

4 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

...fences.

Fences or borders mustn't be a bad thing.

I have some experience with communities – brand communities and more overarching. 

The activity, atmosphere and sense of belonging is in general much better in the brand communities: A Leica forum is partially defined by not being a Sony or Fuji forum.

Andreas

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[LocalHero1953]

44 responses so far, out of 115,000+ members*. Not long before we reach a consensus😄

 

*Though some of those may be dead.

Edited Wednesday at 12:36 PM by LocalHero1953

[jaapv]

 

17 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I had one of the original 7-Artisans 50mm/f1.1 lenses which came with a code that identified it as a 50mm Leica Noctilux. Should that code enable me to put the lens on a Pix ii and legitimately post images on this forum that were taken with the combo?

It's also possible, as I'm sure we are all aware, to have any non-Leica M mount lens coded.

There are always people who want to avoid the rules through deceit. By coding the lens thus 7-Artisans violated the patent.  (Before you ask - if an individual does so and does not falsely pass the lens off as a Noctilux there is no problem) So the answer is: no.