Panasonic S1II and S1IIE render SL3-S obsolete...

[simon_hsn]

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The release of the Panasonic S1II cameras makes it increasingly clear that Leica may not be prioritizing the SL3-S as much as I hoped.

It’s almost absurd that the S1IIE — which uses the same sensor as the SL3-S and is essentially a SL3-S — costs around €2,400 less, yet offers more features, including internal ProRes RAW and more.

At an asking price of €5,200, I would have expected the SL3-S to come with a more advanced, partially stacked sensor — like the one in the S1II. Choosing the SL3-S over Panasonic’s offerings at this price point feels 100% irrational - Even the body is not so unique anymore like with the SL2-S or the original SL Type 601.

What I’d like to see from Leica now is a serious step up in terms of software. The last firmware update brought almost nothing new to the table. At the very least, features like internal ProRes RAW, AF improvements, HEIF image format, 60p without crop! should be added to justify the premium price.

In addition, Leica should invest in expanding their lens lineup—not by rebranding Panasonic or Sigma designs, but by creating more compact, original lenses that reflect the true Leica pedigree, much like their iconic M-series glass.

(Apologies for the rant — it’s just disheartening to see Leica fall so far behind.)

Edited May 16 by simon_hsn

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[CptSlevin]

Leica SL3S was a mistake for Leica, one of the weakest releases in a lifetime, so much potential wasted.

I don't know what was that, a rushed release, a DOA product or a mistake in strategy.
And by the amount of photos posted in respected sections of the forum it's not selling well

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I even decided to sell Leica Q3, Q3 43 and invest in Hasselblad V series, because SL2S in a GOAT for asking price and when coupled with Sigma 50mm 1.2 ART is just killing night time photography and portraits.

Edited May 16 by CptSlevin

[Simone_DF]

I switched from a SL2-S to a Q43 + S5II and, at this stage, it's very unlikely I'll buy back into the SL series. 

[jaapv]

In reality it has been this way since the S5 series started. Still and this is subjective I prefer my SL to my S5 and my SL2S  to my S5 ii. 

[BernardC]

Frankly, I don't see how the S1IIE makes the SL3-S obsolete. Arguably it makes the SL3-S seem over-priced, but that's a different conversation.

I agree with jaapv that the SL series are subjectively better cameras than Lumix options. I have both; the SL's feel better in my hands, and they don't require the same level of customization to get what I want. I can pick-up a new SL and start shooting right away, whereas I need a day to figure-out what options I need to set on a Lumix, and save them as presets.

The S1II has better video options, as do the Blackmagic L-Mount bodies and the Sigma fp/fp-l. It's a great time to be shooting video in L-Mount, and it's only going to get better when the rumoured S1HII is released.

[Stuart Richardson]

Leica is very rarely, if ever, at the technological forefront. They were kind of there with the S2, but that turned out to be a peak product or a dying format (SLR), or the SL (the first "pro" bodied, high resolution EVF camera). They are more likely to take mature technology and apply their design skills and engineering to it. Their area of most innovation is in lens design. But at this point, like a lot of luxury products, you are paying a huge premium for the packaging and interface of what is largely technology sourced from or developed together with less expensive suppliers. It is like this in cars a lot too, I guess. The Audi to Panasonic's Volkswagon, to some degree.

I mean think about it...their most popular product uses a lens mount and body design largely from the 1950s...there is something else going on with them than being technological leaders. I would advise trying to come to terms with it, or just going with the technology you prefer. The Panasonic bodies are great! You don't even need to get rid of your lenses.

[vkdev]

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I am willing to pay $2400 to be offered less. I don't need millions of buttons or pro res raw. I just want a good camera for photo. Another thing is that Leica doesn't offer a product that videographers need and that could be a problem. But it should be a different product, SL3-V(ideo) for example.

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, vkdev said:

I just want a good camera for photo.

All modern cameras, regardless of brand, are more than good. Anyway, the SL3 has you covered on the Leica side, I think?

[vkdev]

24 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

All modern cameras, regardless of brand, are more than good. Anyway, the SL3 has you covered on the Leica side, I think?

You are right. but a camera is also a thing, an artifact. I need tactile sensations. The body and materials are important to me. it is important to me that there are no extra buttons. I need a simple menu.

When a camera has too many functions, they are added in the form of buttons or a menu. Leica M is almost perfect for me. SL series is very good. But I will never buy sony again (I had 3). I can buy a camera cheaper. But I can't buy the body I like cheaper.

[Photoworks]

I have been shooting with Panasonic S1RII for about a month and still can't get use to it.

The menu is a bad as Sony. It is hard to find quickly what i need, and hate it.

Some of the Manu on the screen is so small that I can't even read it.

I got this camera to work on the side of the SL3. I use to compensate for missing option on the SL3 and problem with flash with SL3.

SL3 still has better image quality, especially with adapted lenses.

To the question of whether the SL3-s is less good than the new Panasonic option?  Well, I don't think there is a reason to make a comparison; different companies follow different interests, each camera has a place, and even owning a Panasonic, you would lust over the simplicity and quality of the Leica cameras.

Panasonic is trying to get aggressive to gain market space, and is willing to give you everything people ask for.
The good part is that L-Mont is getting robust, and you have more choices.

[Simone_DF]

19 hours ago, vkdev said:

You are right. but a camera is also a thing, an artifact. I need tactile sensations. The body and materials are important to me. it is important to me that there are no extra buttons. I need a simple menu.

When a camera has too many functions, they are added in the form of buttons or a menu. Leica M is almost perfect for me. SL series is very good. But I will never buy sony again (I had 3). I can buy a camera cheaper. But I can't buy the body I like cheaper.

Yes of course, we are all different. For me the Q3 43mm is the best compromise between all variables, and covers 80-85% of my use. The S5II is for when I want to use M lenses or a different lens. That said, I find the S5II more comfortable to use than the SL2-S. The only thing I really miss from the SL is that fabulous joystick, it's really best in class. 

[V23]

On 5/17/2025 at 1:47 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Leica is very rarely, if ever, at the technological forefront. They were kind of there with the S2, but that turned out to be a peak product or a dying format (SLR), or the SL (the first "pro" bodied, high resolution EVF camera). They are more likely to take mature technology and apply their design skills and engineering to it. Their area of most innovation is in lens design. But at this point, like a lot of luxury products, you are paying a huge premium for the packaging and interface of what is largely technology sourced from or developed together with less expensive suppliers. It is like this in cars a lot too, I guess. The Audi to Panasonic's Volkswagon, to some degree.

I mean think about it...their most popular product uses a lens mount and body design largely from the 1950s...there is something else going on with them than being technological leaders. I would advise trying to come to terms with it, or just going with the technology you prefer. The Panasonic bodies are great! You don't even need to get rid of your lenses.

 

On 5/17/2025 at 1:47 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Leica is very rarely, if ever, at the technological forefront. They were kind of there with the S2, but that turned out to be a peak product or a dying format (SLR), or the SL (the first "pro" bodied, high resolution EVF camera). They are more likely to take mature technology and apply their design skills and engineering to it. Their area of most innovation is in lens design. But at this point, like a lot of luxury products, you are paying a huge premium for the packaging and interface of what is largely technology sourced from or developed together with less expensive suppliers. It is like this in cars a lot too, I guess. The Audi to Panasonic's Volkswagon, to some degree.

I mean think about it...their most popular product uses a lens mount and body design largely from the 1950s...there is something else going on with them than being technological leaders. I would advise trying to come to terms with it, or just going with the technology you prefer. The Panasonic bodies are great! You don't even need to get rid of your lenses.

In my case is an Audi Q3 Quattro over VW recently, sold my S5II and got SL3-S to compliment SL3. LOL.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

19 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes of course, we are all different. For me the Q3 43mm is the best compromise between all variables, and covers 80-85% of my use. The S5II is for when I want to use M lenses or a different lens. That said, I find the S5II more comfortable to use than the SL2-S. The only thing I really miss from the SL is that fabulous joystick, it's really best in class. 

Sugru will fix the joystick. First thing I do on my non-Leica cameras.

Gordon

[jaapv]

On 5/17/2025 at 1:55 PM, Photoworks said:

I have been shooting with Panasonic S1RII for about a month and still can't get use to it.

The menu is a bad as Sony. It is hard to find quickly what i need, and hate it.

Some of the Manu on the screen is so small that I can't even read it.

I got this camera to work on the side of the SL3. I use to compensate for missing option on the SL3 and problem with flash with SL3.

SL3 still has better image quality, especially with adapted lenses.

To the question of whether the SL3-s is less good than the new Panasonic option?  Well, I don't think there is a reason to make a comparison; different companies follow different interests, each camera has a place, and even owning a Panasonic, you would lust over the simplicity and quality of the Leica cameras.

Panasonic is trying to get aggressive to gain market space, and is willing to give you everything people ask for.
The good part is that L-Mont is getting robust, and you have more choices.

The trick with Panasonic is to make any number of presets to your taste, and select them through the function wheel. Never look at the menu whilst out shooting. Ik makes the camera almost an analog one. 

[DrM]

Is there still a significant difference in performance between the newest Panasonic camera and the SL3/s with M lenses (microlenses?)

[jaapv]

No Panasonic is adapted for M lenses.

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, DrM said:

Is there still a significant difference in performance between the newest Panasonic camera and the SL3/s with M lenses (microlenses?)

Although the focus peaking works better on the Panasonic camera, the sensor still has poor performance in the corners with wide to normal lenses.

[SrMi]

This is like saying that GFX100 makes X2D obsolete, which is not true.

I do not see what an S1II or S1IIE brings to me that  Sony, Canon, or Nikon do not. Hence, SL3-S is a buy as it pairs well with my other Leicas and has LPC.

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[jaapv]

6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Although the focus peaking works better on the Panasonic camera, the sensor still has poor performance in the corners with wide to normal lenses.

However it varies by lens

[archive_all]

5 hours ago, SrMi said:

This is like saying that GFX100 makes X2D obsolete, which is not true.

I do not see what an S1II or S1IIE brings to me that  Sony, Canon, or Nikon do not. Hence, SL3-S is a buy as it pairs well with my other Leicas and has LPC.

I see it that way too. The Leicas to me are about cross compatibility, simple menus and handling preferences. 
 

However I think they should and should have looked for a different tech partner for the SL series. I know Panasonic is part of the alliance but I think the SL system is where it’s at because of Panasonics inadequacies. Luckily I don’t use those features but for those that do I get the argument.