Panasonic S1 II and S1 IIE

[pf4eva]

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On 2/22/2025 at 3:39 PM, LBJ2 said:

Of keen interest to me is if Panasonic was able to evolve their Hybrid PDAF, even further with this model than what we see in the SL3, SL3-S. *See first bullet below. Although to this day, and outside of the headline "Leica's fastest camera ever", seems not many discussing SL3-S hybrid PDAF high performance capabilities for some reason ( or at least from what I've come across so far). 

BTW, does anyone know or found details which AF L-mount lenses might be capable of supporting AF up to 40 FPS? 

 

 

 

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AF is most definitely better, why? Because the readout from the sensor is much faster

[helged]

6 minutes ago, pf4eva said:

AF is most definitely better, why? Because the readout from the sensor is much faster

Hopefully we get some early reviews tomorrow; a bunch of youtubers have (hopefully) enjoyed the winter in northern Norway recently. Time to show the results (including some mandatory Aurora Borealis shows, I guess...).

[SrMi]

33 minutes ago, pf4eva said:

AF is most definitely better, why? Because the readout from the sensor is much faster

Is it much faster?

SL3-S and S5 II can do 30 fps, while the new Lumix can do 40 fps (electronic shutter). For comparison, Z8 can do 120fps. The max fps number is often an indication of readout speed. The new Lumix seems to have about 30% faster readout speed than the SL3-S. That is something, but not that much different.

[helged]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Is it much faster?

SL3-S and S5 II can do 30 fps, while the new Lumix can do 40 fps (electronic shutter). For comparison, Z8 can do 120fps. The max fps number is often an indication of readout speed. The new Lumix seems to have about 30% faster readout speed than the SL3-S. That is something, but not that much different.

120 fps; from https://www.capturemag.com.au/gear/review-nikon-z8#:~:text=So behold%2C the Nikon Z8,and 11MP JPEGs at 120-: 

"Z8 can capture 45.7MP RAW files at up to 20-fps (up to a maximum of 1000 frames) and 45.7-MP JPEGs at 30-fps,19-MP JPEGs at 60-fps and 11MP JPEGs at 120-frames-per-second" 

Edited February 24 by helged

[ZHNL]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Is it much faster?

SL3-S and S5 II can do 30 fps, while the new Lumix can do 40 fps (electronic shutter). For comparison, Z8 can do 120fps. The max fps number is often an indication of readout speed. The new Lumix seems to have about 30% faster readout speed than the SL3-S. That is something, but not that much different.

Depend on where is the bottle neck, sensor or processor. In this case, based imx366, the full sensor read out speed is 1/26S. This is about the same as SL3S 24M sensor. Not great but usable for E shutter for most of my user case.

[padam]

On 2/20/2025 at 1:24 PM, Geoff C. Bassett said:

If true Leica made a big mistake not waiting and using this sensor for the Leica SL3s. The only reason I can see is it obliterating sales of the SL3, as 44mp is "close enough" to 60mp. 

Main reason why they didn't do that is they would have needed to redesign the whole camera with active cooling.
But still, resale value of these "new-old" Leicas will be "tested" in 2025...

On 2/20/2025 at 7:50 PM, Smogg said:

There is nothing stopping Leica from releasing the SL3-C (cinema) in a year with the same sensor as Panasonic, then it will have time to jump on the last carriage of the departing train.

Again, same issue, I can't see them redesigning the body. Maybe in the next generation, when all models will generate more heat.

[LBJ2]

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[LBJ2]

 

[Simone_DF]

The new S1RII is looking more and more like a winner, and well worth the wait.

[helged]

Anyone seen estimates of the read out speed/rolling shutter issue (will check later, but chime in if someone has info to share!). I am primaruly interested in (still) photo mode. 

Edited February 25 by helged

[Smogg]

If Panasonic's autofocus capabilities turn out to be on par with CaniSony's, then SL3/SL3-S sales will be at a standstill. It will be unclear why SL3/SL3-S is needed at all.

[padam]

11 minutes ago, helged said:

Anyone seen estimates of the read out speed/rolling shutter issue (will check later, but chime in if someone has info to share!).

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumic-dc-s1rii-initial-review

Like the S5II models, the S1RII gives you the choice of 1.89:1 DCI 4K capture or 16:9 UHD 4K, or 5.9K or 5.8K versions taken from the same capture regions. All four are available as 10-bit footage, with 4K encoded with 4:2:2 chroma precision and the 5.XK modes in 4:2:0.

Footage up to 30p is taken from the full width of the sensor using the full capture resolution, with a slight crop in to give 60p. 4K (in both flavors) is available at up to 120p with the addition of a further slight crop. Line skipping is used to deliver these 100p and 120p modes.

DCI and UHD 4K can also be captured at up to 60p from an APS-C region of the sensor.

	UHD		DCI
	Crop	Rolling shutter	Crop	Rolling shutter
8K, 5.xK*, 4K 30/25/24	1.00	24.9ms	1.00	22.4ms
5.xK*, 4K 50/60	1.11	15.4ms	1.04	15.3ms
4K 100/120	1.17	7.3ms	1.10	7.3ms
4K/30 DRExp*	1.00	31.7ms	1.00	29.8ms

*8.1K and 5.9K modes give the same results as DCI 4K, 8.0K and 5.8K matches UHD

Tellingly the rolling shutter rate in DR Expansion mode is consistent with the rate of 14-bit stills, which suggests it's based on 14-bit capture, explaining Panasonic's claims of greater dynamic range.

In turn, the 60p output's rolling shutter is consistent with the 12-bit stills readout rate. This stongly implies that the standard 24, 25 and 30p modes, which are slower than this but quicker than 14-bit mode are taken from 13-bit capture.

[LD_50]

Deleted

Edited February 25 by LD_50

[LBJ2]

S1rII (pre production) Hybrid PDAF AF "first impressions" start at about the 24:10 marker in this video:

"Not the camera I would pick up for heavy duty sports & action photo....or video" –Chris

 

Edited February 25 by LBJ2

[SrMi]

43 minutes ago, Smogg said:

If Panasonic's autofocus capabilities turn out to be on par with CaniSony's, then SL3/SL3-S sales will be at a standstill. It will be unclear why SL3/SL3-S is needed at all.

I do not believe that. For me, the Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, and Canon are all in one camp, while Leica and Hasselblad are in the other. I'd love better AF with Hasselblads and Leica. In my book, manufacturers in one camp compete with each other, while they do not between camps. 

I am happy that the L-mount is getting new, interesting cameras (Sigma BF, Panasonic S1RII) so the L-mount owners can choose. It is also important that the S1rII is not only a rebadged SL3 but something entirely different. The S1r was too similar to SL2.

[Smogg]

A fairly common situation in Q3 43, SL3, when there are several people in the lens, the camera, losing the main character, switches to a secondary one, and then randomly jumps back to the main one. In such situations, Sony's tracking mode helps out, when the face is recognized only in a small area around the tracking points. It's curious how Panasonic copes with such situations.

[sebben]

This is strange. Seems like these should have been the specs for the SL3. 

[LBJ2]

Read speeds/Rolling shutter:

FWIW. Gerald Undone comments on potential of S1R ii sensor read speeds/rolling shutter comparing it to what he thinks might be the same sensor used in the 8K module of the DJI Ronin 4D he has previously tested as "not great" sensor read speeds/rolling shutter. Starts @ about 2:55 marker chapter "Familiar Shutter" :

 

Edited February 25 by LBJ2

[Smogg]

24 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I do not believe that. For me, the Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, and Canon are all in one camp, while Leica and Hasselblad are in the other. I'd love better AF with Hasselblads and Leica. In my book, manufacturers in one camp compete with each other, while they do not between camps. 

I am happy that the L-mount is getting new, interesting cameras (Sigma BF, Panasonic S1RII) so the L-mount owners can choose. It is also important that the S1rII is not only a rebadged SL3 but something entirely different. The S1r was too similar to SL2.

It's not that simple. Take me for example. I was a long-time Leica M user (M9, m240, m10, m10-r, m11) which covered 90 percent of my needs. However, the Leica M was not enough for me to cover all my needs, in particular, shooting my children's holidays, beach activities, etc. So I always had a secondary camera. I always wanted it to be a Leica too and tried the SL, SL3 at the time. However, I was disappointed with the autofocus capabilities and had to switch to Sony (I tried the Z7 and R5 too), although I am not crazy about the colors of the Sony. I also accidentally bought an X2D, because the M11 was constantly freezing and I had nothing to shoot with. Now it is hard to tear me away from the X2D because of the color (high resolution was not my goal). I believe that Panasonic, having a color school similar to Leica, can well become that  auxiliary camera for various activities, provided that it has good autofocus (we are waiting for tests). I believe that besides me, there are many people who will be pushed to explore other systems by the troubles with M11 and the rather sluggish SL3.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Chris W]

It's just too much of a blizzard of buttons and knobs for me.

The beauty of Hasselbad and Leica SL is the simple and clean industrial design. Not just looks, it helps my workflow. However yes, the autofocus is always the downside.