IkarusJohn Posted May 16 Author Share #141 Posted May 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 minutes ago, costa43 said: I like this approach, using each system to their respective strengths, a direction I am also moving toward. The M experience is best in its simplest form for me too, no additions. Yeah, I agree. I’ve found that my SL is limited to the 24-90 zoom and the R 180/2.8 (both excellent lenses). I originally thought I would use the SL as a universal platform for my M lenses, but I prefer an M camera with M lenses … 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 16 Posted May 16 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here M Classic?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Biotar Posted May 16 Share #142 Posted May 16 ... and if you simply use a helicoid adapter for the M lenses instead of the classic one, the benefits of the SL look completely different again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 16 Share #143 Posted May 16 Nevertheless, I also travel with M and SL, but only because my M is the M9 and I see the SL2-S as a supplement with a modern sensor. For me, the M9 is actually the classic M that you are looking for here. CCD sensors will also still be produced ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 16 Share #144 Posted May 16 (edited) On 5/10/2025 at 12:19 AM, IkarusJohn said: Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate. I agree with everything you write in your OP, except this; stay with the original red dot, I have nice conversations with people I meet because of that red dot. BP is just vanity. And traditional lettering yes and red dot no is a bit weird. AND: if the magenta problem of the M11 isn't solved it's pretty useless to present this purist M. I also plead for a price around € 5000 with no more options than the M9 had. Edited May 16 by otto.f 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted May 16 Share #145 Posted May 16 7 hours ago, Jeff S said: The SL2 is a half pound heavier, and bigger, especially compared to an M without accessories, which is how I use it (except minimalistic thumb lever). If any new stock M added this weight and size, the forum would explode. My experience is the opposite of yours. I own the SL2 and both M10–R and M10M (latter two never used together). I recently bought an M/SL adapter, just to experiment with M lenses on the SL2, something I never cared to do, but kept hearing others’ praise. After a very short trial, I returned the adapter, in large part because I found the size and weight unnecessarily uncomfortable compared to my M, apart from the worse viewing and focusing experience compared to the M’s RF/VF. My 28/35/50 M lenses (only ones owned) work perfectly on an M, and for anything wider or longer, the SL2 serves far better for me than cluttering up my M bodies with sub-optimal accessories. Already a classic M experience for me. Ok fair enough. But you really notice a half a pound addition in a camera bag? Obviously the form is different but it’s really not much bigger, esp for those who slap on grips and visoflex (I never do either). I don’t know, I didn’t buy the SL2 to use with M glass obviously but if I want things like an evf and ibis I find it a solution that works quite well to the point of thinking an evf M would be a lateral move. For me there’s no better way to manually focus than by using a rangefinder. But anyways, this is all getting off topic. None of this is in the spirit of an M Classic as proposed by OP - which I still think is my m10-d! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted May 16 Share #146 Posted May 16 6 minutes ago, pgh said: But you really notice a half a pound addition in a camera bag? Haha I have noticed in the past some people here on LUF are willing to argue the living daylights out of you for 20 grams, they must really be super sensitive claiming they feel this difference. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edax Posted May 16 Share #147 Posted May 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) That instant "startup" of a non-digital "analog" M, would't we want that "feeling" in a digital M?? M11 with near-instant startup, I would't mind if they call that M12.😇 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted May 16 Share #148 Posted May 16 3 hours ago, otto.f said: I agree with everything you write in your OP, except this; stay with the original red dot, I have nice conversations with people I meet because of that red dot. BP is just vanity. And traditional lettering yes and red dot no is a bit weird. AND: if the magenta problem of the M11 isn't solved it's pretty useless to present this purist M. I also plead for a price around € 5000 with no more options than the M9 had. The magenta seems pretty clearly a design choice in terms of the look up table in the camera. I personally don't have an issue at all with it on my M's. Some have done and those that do have successfully sent their cameras back to the factory to be recalibrated to a more neutral palette. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted May 16 Share #149 Posted May 16 2 hours ago, pgh said: But you really notice a half a pound addition in a camera bag? You notice it when shooting, camera on hand or on the strap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 16 Share #150 Posted May 16 35 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said: a more neutral palette Why doesn't Leica sell a neutral palette in the first place, seems common sense to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 16 Share #151 Posted May 16 5 hours ago, otto.f said: I agree with everything you write in your OP, except this; stay with the original red dot, I have nice conversations with people I meet because of that red dot. BP is just vanity. And traditional lettering yes and red dot no is a bit weird. I like both the red dot and the lettering, but for some reason they can't seem to be combined. So because I have to choose, I'll go with the lettering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted May 16 Share #152 Posted May 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, otto.f said: Why doesn't Leica sell a neutral palette in the first place, seems common sense to me. Because camera purchasers endless bang on about colour science. In other words what the natively files look like. Check out the endless whining about the monochrome cameras which produce flat files to preserve detail and need correcting. Not pretty out of camera but very flexible. People want the SOOC files to look great & have a look. The look they’ve chosen suits some but not others. Just depends how many standard deviations from the mean one is and in which direction! Leica and other makers take a punt on people saying ‘the Leica colours are just amazing’ and I suspect their market research said the colours they produced fitted the bill. Of course if they didn’t do market research then they should have! Edited May 16 by Derbyshire Man 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16 Share #153 Posted May 16 4 hours ago, pgh said: ...(do) you really notice a half a pound addition in a camera bag?... I normally carry my camera using a wrist-strap on my left wrist and holding the camera with my thumb and forefinger circling the lens and the body cradled in my palm. I assure you that carrying around an extra half-pound for a couple of hours would be Very Noticeable Indeed. There is an appreciable difference when using the 50 f1.5 Summarit instead of the 50 Summicron v4 and the weight-difference there is a mere 120g / 4.6 oz... Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 16 Share #154 Posted May 16 4 hours ago, pgh said: But you really notice a half a pound addition in a camera bag? I don’t shoot using a bag, and in hand it’s immediately noticeable. For a day out walking, forget it. Minimalism. And as far as the OP’s topic, I’ve already written that the both the M10-R and Monochrom are already my ‘classic’ M bodies… without accessories, including a bag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16 Share #155 Posted May 16 5 hours ago, otto.f said: ...stay with the original red dot, I have nice conversations with people I meet because of that red dot. BP is just vanity. And traditional lettering yes and red dot no is a bit weird... Eh? "BP is just vanity" : Historically where Leica is concerned 'Black Paint' is the traditional finish and the first B-P M-camera complete with traditional script engraving was released in 1956. "stay with the original red dot" : The Red Dot didn't appeared on a Leica camera body until 1976 (R3); fifty years after the marque was launched and twenty years after the B-P M. "traditional lettering yes and red dot no is a bit weird" : Actually Traditional Lettering and Red Dot is a bit weird. AFAIK only a few special limited editions have ever featured the classic Leica script as well as a red dot (2000 Millenium Black Paint; Die Letzten 999 M6 etc.). On cameras where there is a Leica script and a red dot it is usually the (not so traditional) ELCAN version of "Leitz Wetzlar" in bold type which is used. Carry On!......😸...... Philip. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted May 16 Share #156 Posted May 16 so everyone who insists the SL is really that much of a difference would take an M with an EVF as their M classic then? Because that’s what my post was in response to. For me, an EVF gets far enough away from the experience of using an M then you might as well forget the other advantages. I think it would be ridiculous to buy an EVF without AF or any of the other modern advantages. And I states earlier that it might be different if you don’t carry a bag at all. Sheesh though - I am a walking photographer - with a bag, I don’t notice a difference over 5-10 miles with an sl2 or an M and my normal kit of a 35 and a 50. I’m sorry it’s so heavy for some! either way, I think an EVF stays out of an M body or it’s named something else, it sure isn’t an M classic and it sure doesn’t belong to a manual focus limited system - talk about worst of both worlds. A crappier viewing experience without the speed of AF. What?! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 16 Share #157 Posted May 16 2 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said: Leica and other makers take a punt on people saying ‘the Leica colours are just amazing’ and I suspect their market research said the colours they produced fitted the bill. Of course if they didn’t do market research then they should have! Leica will never change the image quality/color post release. It would be an admittance that the millions of photos taken by owners ares somehow flawed. They probably do need a broader range of beta testers though, esp ones that actually print, and ones that are less sycophantic towards anything Leica does. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted May 16 Share #158 Posted May 16 27 minutes ago, pgh said: so everyone who insists the SL is really that much of a difference would take an M with an EVF as their M classic then? Because that’s what my post was in response to. For me, an EVF gets far enough away from the experience of using an M then you might as well forget the other advantages. I think it would be ridiculous to buy an EVF without AF or any of the other modern advantages. And I states earlier that it might be different if you don’t carry a bag at all. Sheesh though - I am a walking photographer - with a bag, I don’t notice a difference over 5-10 miles with an sl2 or an M and my normal kit of a 35 and a 50. I’m sorry it’s so heavy for some! either way, I think an EVF stays out of an M body or it’s named something else, it sure isn’t an M classic and it sure doesn’t belong to a manual focus limited system - talk about worst of both worlds. A crappier viewing experience without the speed of AF. What?! Interestingly after a year of M’s (and occasional use of R5m2 when needed) I just bought a used Q3. Went out to take a few shots of the local church with a water meadow of buttercups in front. Using the M was bliss and easy, the Q I kept moving the focus point with my nose (yes I know I can turn off touch AF) and all in all was less in the zone/satisfying. Both cameras will of course have great output. Today the Q3 will have better shots with the 28mm f1.4 than the Rokkor 40mm F2. I did find myself hankering after the 35mm summilux though. I’m going to walk across the fields to the pub in the local town tonight. On the walk an M would be better. In the pub a Q. Especially after a pint! Select the tool for the job. I’m very definitely nearly as quick as AF with an easy scene and much quicker than anything other than single point AF with a complex one. Something moving the Q is going to beat me but it would be knocked out of the park by my R5M2 with eye tracking and eye subject selection. My main takeaway is thank goodness Leica do fill these niches of RF cameras, EVF’s that go on them, SL’s, Q’s, monochrome sensors. Long may it continue! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted May 16 Share #159 Posted May 16 1 hour ago, pgh said: ...so everyone who insists the SL is really that much of a difference would take an M with an EVF as their M classic then?... An EVF? With a Classic M?..... Philip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corius Posted May 16 Share #160 Posted May 16 2 hours ago, pippy said: An EVF? With a Classic M?..... Philip. A digital sensor? With a Classic M?.... An exposure meter? With a Classic M?.... So why not an EVF? "Classic M" has no meaning beyond "It's the one I really liked" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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