SrMi Posted May 11 Share #101 Posted May 11 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 minutes ago, Biotar said: This means focusing and metering with an open aperture, as with native L lenses. You always focus with a sharp, narrow focal plane, with normal adjusted EVF brightness in medium apertures. As I wrote, yes, for focusing, but open aperture metering has no advantage (simulation is used to compute the settings). The EVF brightness is adjusted regardless of open or working aperture metering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 11 Posted May 11 Hi SrMi, Take a look here M Classic?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #102 Posted May 11 (edited) You can get the simulation when closing the aperture on the lens, or when turning the wheel without closing the aperture. Without simulation, it always remains equally bright, even with the shutter open and closed. Edited May 11 by Biotar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 11 Author Share #103 Posted May 11 So, a classic M digital would almost certainly not have WiFi (though it can be useful) or an EVF compatible hotshoe - the sensor wouldn't be live and the metering would be off the shutter. Focusing or metering wide open or stopped down wouldn't be relevant, nor would the use of the SL or any Canon camera. We're discussing (hopefully) an upgrade to the M60 in an M10 sized body ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotar Posted May 11 Share #104 Posted May 11 (edited) . Edited May 11 by Biotar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphlex Posted May 11 Share #105 Posted May 11 16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said: So, a classic M digital would almost certainly not have WiFi (though it can be useful) or an EVF compatible hotshoe - the sensor wouldn't be live and the metering would be off the shutter. Focusing or metering wide open or stopped down wouldn't be relevant, nor would the use of the SL or any Canon camera. We're discussing (hopefully) an upgrade to the M60 in an M10 sized body ... Works for me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted May 11 Share #106 Posted May 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, Biotar said: You can get the simulation when closing the aperture on the lens, or when turning the wheel without closing the aperture. Without simulation, it always remains equally bright, even with the shutter open and closed. Shutter? You probably mean aperture. No, it does not always stays equally bright if you turn on exposure simulation on (SL with M lenses). Edited May 11 by SrMi Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted May 12 Share #107 Posted May 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said: So, a classic M digital would almost certainly not have WiFi No wifi would make it useless for my workflow. are you proposing an M4 that takes an sd card? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 12 Author Share #108 Posted May 12 Just now, Kwesi said: No wifi would make it useless for my workflow. are you proposing an M4 that takes an sd card? And here we get into the circular discussion about what to include - baseplate? Visoflex compatibility? internal storage? SD card? USB-C charging? cropping? pixel binning? off the sensor metering? and then we get back into IBIS ... Let's just start with the best sensor for dynamic range, with Leica lenses, hand held, direct control of ISO, aperture, shutter speed and focus. The rest? Well, after those four controls, I don't want any more buttons or wheels on the camera, but I suggest we leave that to the Leica engineers on the basis that anything which isn't essential gets ditched. That is why I suggested that the M60 should be the starting point. Personally, I was one (I suspect of others) who suggested the M10-D should have WiFi and Visoflex compatibility. I like mine, but others were not at all happy with that complication. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 12 Share #109 Posted May 12 (edited) Don’t know why this topic is in the M11 section, but whatever. For me, the M10 Monochrom and M10-R (Black Paint) cameras are already my optimal digital M bodies, each the digital version of my former film Ms, with B&W film or color, respectively. Classic looks (no red dot, black paint on the R), RF focus only for me (and no apps, no WiFi, etc), no accessories (except thumb rest), basic manual controls (or aperture priority), base plate, etc. And the files are sensational, better than the M10 in several respects. My M(9) Monochrom is equally simple, but not as quiet, robust or slim. Don’t need more, certainly not an M11…nor less. Edited May 12 by Jeff S 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 12 Share #110 Posted May 12 Hard to follow this discussion. If you want Visoflex compatibility you need live view and with live view the camera is not classic anymore. Otherwise please explain what is a classic digital camera. An M60? I don't recall what this camera is exactly, a variant of the M240? If so it has live view and a sluggish EVF, so too classic to be modern or too modern to be classic? Is this what you mean as starting point? Please forgive my ageing brain... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted May 12 Share #111 Posted May 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, lct said: Hard to follow this discussion. If you want Visoflex compatibility you need live view and with live view the camera is not classic anymore. Otherwise please explain what is a classic digital camera. An M60? I don't recall what this camera is exactly, a variant of the M240? If so it has live view and a sluggish EVF, so too classic to be modern or too modern to be classic? Is this what you mean as starting point? Please forgive my ageing brain... The M60 did not have liveview. It was the catalyst for the M-D typ262, which was a copy more suited to larger production The M60 was an m240 on the inside and I think stainless steel finish if I remember rightly on the outside. It’s as raw an experience as you can have on a digital M. It’s major downside for me was the lack of strap lugs! Edited May 12 by costa43 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted May 12 Author Share #112 Posted May 12 2 hours ago, costa43 said: The M60 did not have liveview. It was the catalyst for the M-D typ262, which was a copy more suited to larger production The M60 was an m240 on the inside and I think stainless steel finish if I remember rightly on the outside. It’s as raw an experience as you can have on a digital M. It’s major downside for me was the lack of strap lugs! I had one, with two of the Leica leather cases with straps. I didn’t mind the lack of lugs. What I rather liked about it was white balance was auto and ISO was auto, and it didn’t seem to matter too much (normally, I don’t like auto anything). DNG only output. The top and bottom plates were solid stainless steel, as was the 35 Summilux (FLE) matched to it. In practise, the only thing I missed was the lack of a threaded shutter release. No live view, no rear screen. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 12 Share #113 Posted May 12 5 hours ago, costa43 said: The M60 did not have liveview. OK thanks but how about Visoflex compatibility then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted May 12 Share #114 Posted May 12 2 minutes ago, lct said: OK thanks but how about Visoflex compatibility then? No Visoflex compatibility on the M60 or M-D typ262. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted May 12 Share #115 Posted May 12 2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: I had one, with two of the Leica leather cases with straps. I didn’t mind the lack of lugs. What I rather liked about it was white balance was auto and ISO was auto, and it didn’t seem to matter too much (normally, I don’t like auto anything). DNG only output. The top and bottom plates were solid stainless steel, as was the 35 Summilux (FLE) matched to it. In practise, the only thing I missed was the lack of a threaded shutter release. No live view, no rear screen. I'm not a big fan of cases so I would find it very difficult to live with. They actually have one for sale in my local store with the Summilux set for in mint condition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 12 Share #116 Posted May 12 2 minutes ago, costa43 said: No Visoflex compatibility on the M60 or M-D typ262. I thought that the OP wanted such compatibility... Sorry for misunderstanding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF’sDelight Posted May 12 Share #117 Posted May 12 Am 10.5.2025 um 00:19 schrieb IkarusJohn: With all the talk of an MEVF, IBIS and the like, potentially making the already complex M11 even more feature filled, what chance is there of Leica making a digital M in the same paradigm as a digital MP or M6? A purist digital M, for those who like to add a little dismissive connotation. This isn’t an invitation to spec such, but the question - is Leica developing such a camera? Best sensor for the use (not just the best sensor), best dynamic range, all packaged in what Leica used to do so well - the most effective, stripped back combination of components which work well together, but give you nothing more that excellent direct control of ISO, focus, aperture and shutter speed, with a DNG file. Nothing more, preferably in black paint, no red dot, traditional lettering on the top plate. My order is in for a Monochrom D version! 🙏 100% + integrated thumb rest, something like a fake lever. 😉 But this wouldn’t be a deal breaker if it wasn’t part of the M classic. ( Without reading the whole thread ) (( But I know what I’m talking about )) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgeenen Posted May 12 Share #118 Posted May 12 For me, „classic“ would be an M camera, where just the film is replaced by a sensor. I accept metering as „classic“, so an ISO dial is ok for me. Whether metering should be off-shutter or off-sensor, that‘s a pure technical decision, I don‘t care about. Likewise, I don‘t care about the design of the bottom plate. No wheels, no buttons (except the on/off switch), no menus, no settings. Raw only, so no white balance required. Given the power consumption of the sensor, a rechargeable battery is a must - same as the SD card. Screens, menus, EVF add-ons - no go. would I buy such a camera? No, I would take my M6, MP or M4 or whatever and film. For snaps and Macro work and for sharing I would take a smart phone. In fact, the more I think about it - may be it is time to sell my M11…. In fact, I should give this combo (film and smart phone) a try and decide afterwards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 12 Share #119 Posted May 12 Problem would be finding enough people willing to pay the price of a Leica for such a "classic" digital camera, when Leica is one of the few manufacturers still offering film cameras. Don't count me in, but i sympathise with difficult causes like this 😎 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 12 Share #120 Posted May 12 (edited) 43 minutes ago, lct said: Problem would be finding enough people willing to pay the price of a Leica for such a "classic" digital camera, when Leica is one of the few manufacturers still offering film cameras. Don't count me in, but i sympathise with difficult causes like this 😎 I get the impression that film users often find it very difficult to understand why anyone would want a digital camera that behaves like a film camera (why not just buy a film camera?). It's about as difficult as getting someone to understand that some people wants a digital camera without a screen (why not just turn it off?). Edited May 12 by evikne 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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