M Classic?

[IkarusJohn]

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Not sure how this fits into the concept of a minimalist, digital M classic …

[Biotar]

I take photos at concerts and in the theater on stage without a disturbing screen and have to choose a stable and therefore manual exposure with changing scene light, always on the border of motion blur. I currently choose my exposure time by ear and try and error, because the click count in the scenes takes even longer. This is extremely poor for a photographer's tool after 11 generations. No matter how graceful it looks and how quietly it shoots - it remains classically limited, if that's what you mean.

[Biotar]

My next step was then to use the M lenses on the SL because it is the more suitable camera tool for me. Finally, I realized that the M lenses with the working aperture focus do not perform optimally here and I switched to Zeiss lenses, which allow open aperture metering. The next step would then be to do without Leica altogether - I think that would be a shame and that's why I'm speaking out here.

Or why did you ask the question? 

... and especially when everyone wants a D version, the exposure time in the viewfinder is even more essential

Edited May 11 by Biotar

[Carlos cruz]

If one prefers to read “minimalist and classic” verbatim I understand that perfect digital m would be without light meter or an A mode, with speeds going from 1-1/1000  just like original m3 and one iso you can choose every 36 frames. No frame lines for 28 or 75 because they don’t fit canonical ideals. Or does one set canon in m6 era for misunderstood functionality sake only to be called a thoughtcriminal for bypassing m5. Technically one could decide in camera menu if he’s an m6 “traditionalist” or earlier m5 splitter and everyone could happily ignore the other group. 

[Biotar]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb Carlos cruz:

 Technically one could decide in camera menu if he’s an m6 “traditionalist” or earlier m5 splitter and everyone could happily ignore the other group. 

So it would be good if you could hide the unnecessary overlays in the RF when you don't need them, if you could also display a 40mm or any other frame, regardless of the lens used ...

the minimization of the optimum, instead of celebrating what is missing

Edited May 11 by Biotar

[IkarusJohn]

32 minutes ago, Biotar said:

it remains classically limited, if that's what you mean.

By definition.

[IkarusJohn]

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22 minutes ago, Biotar said:

Finally, I realized that the M lenses with the working aperture focus do not perform optimally here and I switched to Zeiss lenses, which allow open aperture metering.

Do you mean that Zeiss lenses have auto-aperture stop down on an SL?  Interesting. Which lenses?

[Peter H]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Count the clicks...

Exactly

 

 

[Biotar]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

Do you mean that Zeiss lenses have auto-aperture stop down on an SL?  Interesting. Which lenses?

I work with Otus, Milvus, Classic in the ZE version on the Sigma MC-21

[Biotar]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[adan]

Ay-yi-yi—Yi-yi! What a shemozzle over....... nothing! 😜

It's not as though this will be the only digital M being made - any more than the -D versions were the only digital Ms being made in their time.

No one will HAVE to buy or use one. It will just be an alternative.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Biotar said:

My next step was then to use the M lenses on the SL because it is the more suitable camera tool for me. Finally, I realized that the M lenses with the working aperture focus do not perform optimally here and I switched to Zeiss lenses, which allow open aperture metering. <snip>

I understand the desire for oper aperture focusing, but do not see the point in open aperture metering.

[Kwesi]

2 minutes ago, adan said:

Ay-yi-yi—Yi-yi! What a shemozzle over....... nothing! 😜

It's not as though this will be the only digital M being made - any more than the -D versions were the only digital Ms being made in their time.

No one will HAVE to buy or use one. It will just be an alternative.

Bless you!

not everything has to be turned onto rocket science. 
eg. I have an M11. I use it in manual and aperture priority modes. I don’t use the screen to compose or focus. I’ve never explored the myriad possibilities available in the menus. For me, it’s a very simple tool for making photos that has worked the same way for many iterations. 

[sandro]

The Leica M wasn't invented in the first place to serve every possible photographic assignment or need. Gradually the system has expanded and I find a relative simplicity in the M11 that I have loved in analog M camera's. For some specific pusposes one may have to use another system instead of the Leica M. It is the simplicity that has made it rather easy for me and other users to switch between analog M and the M11.

Rather than expect Leica to fit all kinds of desires into a digital M camera, we may have to choose which camera to use for which specific photographic need.

Lex

[Biotar]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

I understand the desire for oper aperture focusing, but do not see the point in open aperture metering.

This means focusing and metering with an open aperture, as with native L lenses. You always focus with a sharp, narrow focal plane, with normal adjusted EVF brightness in medium apertures.

[IkarusJohn]

45 minutes ago, Biotar said:

I work with Otus, Milvus, Classic in the ZE version on the Sigma MC-21

Right, so you're still focusing on the working aperture?  The SL doesn't accommodate aperture stop down?

Metering with either Zeiss or M lenses will still be on the working aperture, won't it?

 

[Biotar]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb sandro:

The Leica M wasn't invented in the first place to serve every possible photographic assignment or need. Gradually the system has expanded and I find a relative simplicity in the M11 that I have loved in analog M camera's. For some specific pusposes one may have to use another system instead of the Leica M. It is the simplicity that has made it rather easy for me and other users to switch between analog M and the M11.

Rather than expect Leica to fit all kinds of desires into a digital M camera, we may have to choose which camera to use for which specific photographic need.

Lex

Yes, but why does Leica choose automatic exposure over manual metering, especially with the M? M stands for manual, doesn't it?

[Kwesi]

1 minute ago, Biotar said:

M stands for manual, doesn't it?

No. ‘Messsucher’ 

[Biotar]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

Right, so you're still focusing on the working aperture?  The SL doesn't accommodate aperture stop down?

Metering with either Zeiss or M lenses will still be on the working aperture, won't it?

 

No - I use all my Canon EF and Zeiss ZE lenses at open aperture with automatic aperture, as the MC-21 practically adapts a native Sigma lens.

Edited May 11 by Biotar

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Hallo,

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[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, Biotar said:

This means focusing and metering with an open aperture, as with native L lenses. You always focus with a sharp, narrow focal plane, with normal adjusted EVF brightness in medium apertures.

As I wrote, yes, for focusing, but open aperture metering has no advantage (simulation is used to compute the settings). The EVF brightness is adjusted regardless of open or working aperture metering.