Would you buy two bodies or better lenses?

[Kiwimac]

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I have, like most of us, a finite budget. 
 

At the moment it’s not too finite due to retirement and I decided to get a new M system. 
 

The budget would allow several permutations, as follows:

 

1) Buy M11-P or D with two grail lenses (50 Apo and 28 Lux for example)

 

2) Buy M11-P or D with M11 Monochrom and one lens but the lens would be probably a 35 non Apo and it would probably be some time before I could add another or upgrade to Apo. I like the Apo rendering having previously owned the 35. 
 

Normally, I’d spend the money on glass not camera bodies. However in this case, the bodies are quite different. I could not live with Monochrom as my only option (I don’t think) but it’s one of those things I’m sure that many of us have wanted to try. I know I have. 
 

However, knowing that the M11 Mono is a great camera and that the M12 won’t be too far away now, I could equally buy one body and the better glass now and wait for the glut of traded M11M bodies when the M12M is launched…!

[Fleabag]

With this kind of funds, there are so many options. I'd always say more lenses before more bodies. on the other hand, a Monochrom has been at the back of my mind for quite some time. But still. given only the two options, I'd go for option 1, especially with your thoughts on getting an M11M later. 28 / 50 is tried and tested as a great combo. I switched to 24 / 50 and couldn't be happier. I have other lenses, but these two are in my bag all the time, with the others as special occasion lenses. That said, it can be quite a unique experience to have just one lens and the 35 APO would be my lens of choice if it came to that.

So back to your question, my vote goes to M11-P and 28/50. Get used to the camera and lenses. You can set the M11-P to DNG+JPG and get the JPG in B&W. That will turn the screen to B&W previews as well. This way, you still get the colour DNGs but get a feel for how it will be to work with a Monochrom.

Or, you could do what I just did for that Monochrom itch ... Get a used Q2M. They are surprisingly affordable and stable in price, so you probably wouldn't loose that much money when you sell it for a used M11M later on.

[jakontil]

I’d get a body and a lense or two

[Stuart Richardson]

A single body and more lenses would be more useful to me. I would also consider Voigtlander lenses if there is any budget constraint at all (and even if there isn't). Some of their best lenses are right on par with Leica's best, such as the APO Lanthar series. If you have all the money in the world, then by all means, get Leica everything, but if you don't it is hard to argue with saving what is now almost 9000 dollars (in the US) and getting nearly the same optical performance, as is the case with the 50mm APO Lanthar and 50mm APO Summicron. I have a large kit of Leica lenses, including the 50mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH, and my main 50mm lens is the APO Lanthar. It is just better than the Leica lenses. The only Leica 50mm I have that is better is the 50mm APO Summicron SL, which is indeed better than even the 50mm APO Summicron M, but it also cost me about a third of the current retail for the 50mm APO Summicron M.

[ApoVision]

Within the range you have specified, I would go for ONE camera and TWO lenses. Two cameras to share one lens? Awkwardest! 28 SLX is an excellent choice (angle of view and limited DOF). Are you really conviced of the 50APO? Last FR, chose the 50 SLX (ASPH II) over the APO because of what everybody calls character.

You didn't ask the question but I bought the first Monochrome (246), at the same time as the 262, both with 24MP. Alway took both cameras with me but ended up shooting with the "color" model, also because I could work on these DNG with SilverEfex Pro (maybe, it is possible in the meantime to do mono DNGs). The color Leica, although colors are only calculated, contain more information to play around (I am aware this is scientifically disputable).

Anyway, I usually have an M11P with the 50 SLX and an M11 with the 28 SLX with me - and I am more than happy. In the future, I will evaluate whether to use my NOCT 1.2 or my NOCT 0.95 instead of the SLX.

 

[adan]

"Budget the luxuries first - the necessities will take care of themselves." - Lazarus Long

Here's how I started with Leica M (2001). Pre-digital stuff, so there was a long tail of (relatively cheap) used film gear to choose from.

Got the ball rolling with a cover-it-all-with-drama kit: 1 camera + 2 lenses (M4-2, 21 Elmarit w/viewfinder, 90 'cron pre-APO (later traded back for 90 f/2.8 TE - found the 'cron to be shockingly heavy after the petite Contax Sonnar-G's 240 grams, and hard to focus; later learned better 😁 )) - $3000-ish (but actually cash-free; traded in a whole Contax G system - 2 bodies and 4 lenses).

Four months later - added 35mm Summicron v.4 (Gave me a tiny "f/2.0 normal-wide," $650 for a user-grade in those days)

Two months after that, added M4-P as camera #2 backup ($1000)

Paused for two years, then added a late-version 135 Tele-Elmar. Never did get a 50 at that time.

By the time the M8 came along, I had all the lenses! Repurposed my C/V 15mm to cover "20mm" with the M8 crop factor - and added a 50 as a "70mm". The original 21 and 90 (again) were the ones that got free 6-bit coding from Leica (Leica's "compensation" to users for the M8's infrared problems, along with two free UV/IR filters).

Moral of the fable: Cameras with no lenses are useless; lenses with no back-up camera may become useless overnight! So shuffle between them, rather than prioritizing one or the other.

[Kiwimac]

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20 minutes ago, ApoVision said:

Within the range you have specified, I would go for ONE camera and TWO lenses. Two cameras to share one lens? Awkwardest! 28 SLX is an excellent choice (angle of view and limited DOF). Are you really conviced of the 50APO? Last FR, chose the 50 SLX (ASPH II) over the APO because of what everybody calls character.

You didn't ask the question but I bought the first Monochrome (246), at the same time as the 262, both with 24MP. Alway took both cameras with me but ended up shooting with the "color" model, also because I could work on these DNG with SilverEfex Pro (maybe, it is possible in the meantime to do mono DNGs). The color Leica, although colors are only calculated, contain more information to play around (I am aware this is scientifically disputable).

Anyway, I usually have an M11P with the 50 SLX and an M11 with the 28 SLX with me - and I am more than happy. In the future, I will evaluate whether to use my NOCT 1.2 or my NOCT 0.95 instead of the SLX.

 

Well yes I see your point. 
 

However, given that in this scenario one is colour and one is B&W it seemed to me unlikely that I would often shoot them at the same time. 
 

I have often read comments here along the lines that people with both tend to take one and think/see in either colour or monochrome that day. 

Am I convinced by the Apo? Well, I owned the 35 Apo and that was spankingly good  - also many people have said that the 50 is even better although I’ve not used it  

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

That shot was M11 and Apo 35. 

Edited May 8 by Kiwimac

[dynaerik]

I would go for the more lenses. Monochrom is definitely tempting. But since you couldn't live with just the Monochrom I guess it is sufficient for your needs to convert the M11 photos into BW. It is so much more versatile with 28 / 50 and the lenses will stay longer than the bodies  

[JNK100]

What sort of photography do you do?

[didier]

In purely analog times (until 2014 for me) I always had a couple of bodies with me (sometimes 3), as changing lenses and using only one film could be a problem.
Ever since I went digital, I have had only one M body simulaneously (because I don’t have the fixed ISO of analog, and also because of the price / depreciation of digital bodies), and kept (and added) a (rather big) number of Lenses… Most of the time, I go out with 1 Body / 1 Lens, choosing the Lens depending on : subject, mood, place…

I happen to go out with my M10M, and Q2 if I wand color or even an analog M, but I must say I rarely use simultaneously B&W and Color.

So if you choice is M11M and M11 (P or D) with one Lens or M11 (P or D) with Lens(es), I’d go the one body route to have at least 2 great lenses… and convert color pics to B&W when desired.

 

 

[pgh]

I don't think you can crowdsource this question, you need to know what your goals with photography are and let the answers follow from that. 

For example, I rarely, if ever shoot M's (or anything else really) with anything other than 35s and 50s or the medium format equivalent. Ideally I have both at my disposal at the same time, and ideally on two bodies so I don't have to switch lenses in the field. 

So the answer was to make sure I had those two lenses eventually with one body, but after that, the second body was the answer, before any other lenses. 

[marchyman]

I don't know if there is a right answer to this question.  For several years I carried a Q and an M 262 w/75mm lens because switching cameras was easier and faster than changing lenses.  It helped that both were 24 mpix sensors.  I did prefer the M over the Q, but using the Q with manual focus was acceptable.  Then I got the M11.  And a 35mm lens.  Now the Q almost always stays home.

I don't change lenses nearly as often as I changed cameras when I was carrying both. Am I missing something because of that?  Don't know.  Would you?

[evikne]

Congratulations on your luxury problem (I wish I had it too). 😄

I don't want to add even more confusion than you're going to get anyway, so I'll refrain from giving yet another piece of advice.

Edited May 8 by evikne

[graphlex]

6 hours ago, adan said:

"Budget the luxuries first - the necessities will take care of themselves." - Lazarus Long

Here's how I started with Leica M (2001). Pre-digital stuff, so there was a long tail of (relatively cheap) used film gear to choose from.

Got the ball rolling with a cover-it-all-with-drama kit: 1 camera + 2 lenses (M4-2, 21 Elmarit w/viewfinder, 90 'cron pre-APO (later traded back for 90 f/2.8 TE - found the 'cron to be shockingly heavy after the petite Contax Sonnar-G's 240 grams, and hard to focus; later learned better 😁 )) - $3000-ish (but actually cash-free; traded in a whole Contax G system - 2 bodies and 4 lenses).

Four months later - added 35mm Summicron v.4 (Gave me a tiny "f/2.0 normal-wide," $650 for a user-grade in those days)

Two months after that, added M4-P as camera #2 backup ($1000)

Paused for two years, then added a late-version 135 Tele-Elmar. Never did get a 50 at that time.

By the time the M8 came along, I had all the lenses! Repurposed my C/V 15mm to cover "20mm" with the M8 crop factor - and added a 50 as a "70mm". The original 21 and 90 (again) were the ones that got free 6-bit coding from Leica (Leica's "compensation" to users for the M8's infrared problems, along with two free UV/IR filters).

Moral of the fable: Cameras with no lenses are useless; lenses with no back-up camera may become useless overnight! So shuffle between them, rather than prioritizing one or the other.

What I miss most about the G system is that tiny 90mm. 

[jaapv]

Just buy a good but cosmetically cheaper M8 or M9 as backup. 

[Kiwimac]

Well, I’ve taken at least a partial step and confirmed my Safari 11-P order this morning. 
 

To answer (hopeful I remember all the questions!🤣) the points above:

 

I mostly do travel and documentary style work. I’m beginning what I expect to be a long term social documentary project here in NZ. Not for pay (alas!) but I know that there’s a shortage of images recording daily life so it seemed to me that I could be useful and build a body of work to be left to the National Museum or something when I fall off my perch. 
 

My wife and I don’t seem to travel overseas as much as we did a few years ago - the cost of getting anywhere from NZ has climbed steadily year on year - but we still will travel because we have family spread around the world. 
 

My usual focal lengths are 28,35 and 50. I found the 35 Apo a great lens. I continue to wonder to myself whether 50 and 35 Apo summicrons might be too close though. It sort of feels like 50 Apo with 28 Lux with perhaps something like the 35 Steelrim or the 8 element for a bit of character (there’s a pretty tidy German made 8 element 35 available locally but I’ve never used one myself). I could live with 28/50 until the universe sends me a 35 though, I think  

Looking at images taken with the 35 Apo Cron, I commonly ended up cropping to exclude a border of stuff that added little to the image  so either I wasn’t quite close enough or 50 would suit me better.

 

 Like many of you, I don’t really mess about changing lenses all day; I might carry two and change if I desire but I’d be most likely to do that when I’ve stopped for coffee, lunch etc. 

Edited May 8 by Kiwimac

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Well, I’ve taken at least a partial step and confirmed my Safari 11-P order this morning. 
 

To answer (hopeful I remember all the questions!🤣) the points above:

 

I mostly do travel and documentary style work. I’m beginning what I expect to be a long term social documentary project here in NZ. Not for pay (alas!) but I know that there’s a shortage of images recording daily life so it seemed to me that I could be useful and build a body of work to be left to the National Museum or something when I fall off my perch. 
 

My wife and I don’t seem to travel overseas as much as we did a few years ago - the cost of getting anywhere from NZ has climbed steadily year on year - but we still will travel because we have family spread around the world. 
 

My usual focal lengths are 28,35 and 50. I found the 35 Apo a great lens. I continue to wonder to myself whether 50 and 35 Apo summicrons might be too close though. It sort of feels like 50 Apo with 28 Lux with perhaps something like the 35 Steelrim or the 8 element for a bit of character (there’s a pretty tidy German made 8 element 35 available locally but I’ve never used one myself). I could live with 28/50 until the universe sends me a 35 though, I think  

Looking at images taken with the 35 Apo Cron, I commonly ended up cropping to exclude a border of stuff that added little to the image  so either I wasn’t quite close enough or 50 would suit me better.

 

 Like many of you, I don’t really mess about changing lenses all day; I might carry two and change if I desire but I’d be most likely to do that when I’ve stopped for coffee, lunch etc. 

another food for thoughts… 35 apo black anodized dont go well with a safari which you just confirmed.. may be a 35 lux CF better aesthetically 

[costa43]

Another shout out for Voigtlander if you are after a modern lens with the best performance. They are due to release a 28mm APO this year which they state is the highest performing wide lens they have ever made. A bold and exciting claim. Along with the 50mm APO which is pretty much faultless, you could buy both your bodies and have two of the highest performing lenses available in M mount, you just won’t get the Leica badge. I’m a big fan of vintage Leica glass but when I’m chasing pure performance, I cannot justify the crazy difference in price when 3rd party lenses are just as good and in some instances better. 

[Stef63]

6 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Well, I’ve taken at least a partial step and confirmed my Safari 11-P order this morning. 

That’s a solid choice. Like @jakontil said, I would also go for a chrome lens.

Another option is to choose one top-quality modern lens, like a 35mm or 50mm, and then add two vintage lenses on each side of the focal length range.

As you mentioned, it then really depends on what you want to shoot that day—you’ll have the flexibility to go with either vintage character or tack-sharp modern rendering, depending on your mood. I often use Pentax Takumar lenses like the 50mm, 85mm, or 135mm with an M42 adapter, or a vintage Canon FD 55mm f/1.2. These can be found for a few hundred and still deliver great results.

In the end, you might even have some budget left for an M10 Monochrom—or indeed maybe wait for the M11M.

Just my thoughts. Good luck with the safari!

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Hallo,

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[dugby]

I have a 50APO and a 35FLE on an M10R

The 50APO gets all the love & attention for shooting (it’s images are always heart warming) whilst the 35FLE is used for when I really need twice the screen image capture.