Leica Q3 or Fujifilm GFX 100RF

[keithlaban.co.uk]

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9 minutes ago, Chris W said:

Fab photos. Makes me more liable to buy a Q3 43 one day.

Thank you, much appreciated.

[Le Chef]

Since it’s more likely than not that the M-EVF will be based on the M11, then the restrictions will be determined by the current sensor and processor.

As I understand it, and I may be wrong:

The sensor as used in M11 has the code for PDAF written into it, but it’s not been “switched on” to work with the processor. Leica presumably reasoned there was no need to do this as M lenses are all manual focus. And I’m not sure about the micro lenses needed to make PDAF functional.

The Maestro III processor can handle PDAF but is not that sophisticated by current standards and would have difficulty with face and eye detection.

It leaves a lot of questions to be answered about what realistically Leica would commit to in terms of developing this variant. Go to far and you shade the M12 whenever that comes out. Too little development and you end up with a “meh” response and poor sales.

[Simone_DF]

31 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The sensor as used in M11 has the code for PDAF written into it, but it’s not been “switched on” to work with the processor. Leica presumably reasoned there was no need to do this as M lenses are all manual focus. And I’m not sure about the micro lenses needed to make PDAF functional.

This is fine. The SL3 has the same sensor, microlenses and PDAF. 

 

32 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The Maestro III processor can handle PDAF but is not that sophisticated by current standards and would have difficulty with face and eye detection.

The SL2 and SL2-S have the Maestro III and no difficulty with face and eye detection. 

[steve edmunds]

On 4/18/2025 at 3:21 PM, Smogg said:

Today I photographed my children's games with the GFX100RF. I was pleased... But then I picked up the M11-P and continued with it. It's like night and day, you can't even compare the speed of work and the satisfaction from shooting. How much easier it is to work with a rangefinder.

your focus with the rangefinder is quicker than the fuji AF with your kids moving around , is that what your saying?

[Le Chef]

7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

This is fine. The SL3 has the same sensor, microlenses and PDAF.

But the version in the M11 does not. Leica would need to have the chips “activated” for the M11-EVF to communicate phase shifts to the processor, as I understand it.

[Smogg]

5 hours ago, steve edmunds said:

your focus with the rangefinder is quicker than the fuji AF with your kids moving around , is that what your saying?

Yes, that's right. However, I never shoot wide open, the context of what's happening is important to me.

[SrMi]

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3 hours ago, Le Chef said:

But the version in the M11 does not. Leica would need to have the chips “activated” for the M11-EVF to communicate phase shifts to the processor, as I understand it.

I doubt that. PDAF pixels are regular pixels with different masking. As the toppings are customer-specific, Leica could have chosen to implement toppings without any PDAF-specific bindings. For example, Hasselblad's PDAF spacing differs from Fuji's, despite using the same sensor.

Jim Kasson: The PDAF pixels are created during the “topping” phase of sensor fabrication, at the same time as the color filter array (CFA) is applied. 

[Simone_DF]

16 hours ago, Smogg said:

So, as far as I understand, there are no technical obstacles to eye/face detection in the EVF-M. The only question is whether Leica has the expertise to implement this in 2025 or whether we will have to wait a little longer.

They do have the expertise, but my biggest concern is that the current implementation of eye/face detection on the SL and Q is far from ideal. When there's one or two people in the frame, it's very good. When there's 3 or more people, it starts to jump from face to face / eye to eye and it becomes a nightmare. If the same happens on the M, especially if there's auto-magnification on the eye, it won't be very usable.  

[setuporg]

Here’s an excellent review of the GFX100RF but its alleged thought-conceiver!  (To return this thread to the original meaning from a deep dive into PDAF pixels…)

https://jonasraskphotography.com/2025/03/20/impossibly-possible-the-fujifilm-gfx100rf-review/

[LocalHero1953]

On 4/19/2025 at 9:15 PM, Simone_DF said:

Just wanted to point out that even with the Nikon ZF, eye confirmation is supported only with chipped lenses or adapter, e.g. if you mount a M lens on a dumb adapter, it won’t work, but if you mount the same lens on a chipped adapter, then you get a green confirmation box when the eye of a subject is in focus. 

I assume a chipped lens is just to identify the lens to the camera. Leica's 6-bit coding would do the same.

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I assume a chipped lens is just to identify the lens to the camera. Leica's 6-bit coding would do the same.

You can set the focal length manually, which helps with IBIS but does not replace chipped lenses functionality. I assume that chipped lenses also pass on the focus distance info.

[Smogg]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

You can set the focal length manually, which helps with IBIS but does not replace chipped lenses functionality. I assume that chipped lenses also pass on the focus distance info.

If a chipped adapter can determine the focal length and distance of an unchipped lens, then the same can be done inside the camera.

[LocalHero1953]

20 minutes ago, SrMi said:

You can set the focal length manually, which helps with IBIS but does not replace chipped lenses functionality. I assume that chipped lenses also pass on the focus distance info.

I can't see how the focus distance would help with picking out a face to highlight, but then I don't know how such things could work anyway.

[hdmesa]

On 4/19/2025 at 1:10 PM, Smogg said:

I still hope that Leica will present something special for its centenary.

You can hope, but there is no way Leica is doing to somehow implement a feature they don't even have working on the SL3/SL3-S, in this case subject detection with a manual focus M lens. The best we can hope for is an option to display a virtual rangefinder patch in the EVF.

Edited April 21 by hdmesa

[Simone_DF]

10 hours ago, hdmesa said:

You can hope, but there is no way Leica is doing to somehow implement a feature they don't even have working on the SL3/SL3-S, in this case subject detection with a manual focus M lens. The best we can hope for is an option to display a virtual rangefinder patch in the EVF.

I agree with you, but this may not necessarily be the case. It could be that the EVF-M will be the first camera to introduce the feature and it will be rolled out later to the SL cousins. 

However, not even Panasonic has this feature, and that's where Leica's AF is derived. Panasonics have a patch that zooms on the area of focus, so you can fine tune focus while still looking at the overall picture to help composing, so that's most likely how it will work.  

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I agree with you, but this may not necessarily be the case. It could be that the EVF-M will be the first camera to introduce the feature and it will be rolled out later to the SL cousins. 

However, not even Panasonic has this feature, and that's where Leica's AF is derived. Panasonics have a patch that zooms on the area of focus, so you can fine tune focus while still looking at the overall picture to help composing, so that's most likely how it will work.  

I think there was a rumor floating around where Leica was showing a concept for a virtual rangefinder patch option.

Even though I'm skeptical they'll introduce subject detection allowing zoom-to-subject, etc. – it would be super easy to implement. Proof of how easy it would be: Canon's R and RP cameras accidentally left subject/eye-AF enabled for manual focus lenses if the user had turned it on when an AF lens was attached (and focus confirmation worked with chipped manual lenses like the Zeiss ZE lenses when using the Canon EF adapter). Nikon jumped on that bandwagon with the Zf by finally making it a feature. Leica could easily add this to the SL3/S cameras because limiting subject detection to AF lenses is an artificial limitation. 

[Smogg]

Face detection is nowhere near the Q3's. The 100FX detects faces that take up even a tiny percentage of the frame.

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[SrMi]

I've just got the GFX100RF, and my first impression is that it's a nice camera, but it can't replace my Q3.

[steve edmunds]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I've just got the GFX100RF, and my first impression is that it's a nice camera, but it can't replace my Q3.

why ?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, steve edmunds said:

why ?

The ergonomics and build are better with Q3. RF feels a bit toyish. With RF, I have to shoot JPEGs with raws, and there is no highlight-weighted metering (Leica's implementation). The EVF flickers as with any Fuji when acquiring focus or locking exposure with a half-press.

There are also several advantages to RF, including a great RGB histogram, improved AF, BBF, and a better implementation of digital zoom.

I will keep both GFX 100RF and Q3.