How to un see Magenta cast?

[charlesphoto99]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Colour in art is an opinion anyway:

https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/article/magazine-debate-is-colour-purely-subjective

https://www.datacolor.com/learn/data-of-color/

It's no longer an 'opinion' when more than one person sees the same fault. 

[Photoworks]

we should all develop a creative mindset to improve ourselves in photography.

Selecting, subject, background, lens, and lighting, as well as editing and making deliberate choices.

It is better to create photos if you use the camera to do it all for you are just taking and moving on to another take. 

 

[jaapv]

56 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

It's no longer an 'opinion' when more than one person sees the same fault. 

?  That is the end of all political parties worldwide. 
Anyway I think that it does not qualify as a fault. If that were true all cameras would render exactly the same. 

[graphlex]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

Nothing to do with admitting - just balancing the number of complainants to the number of owners that see no problem - but would if they changed it. 

Colour in art is an opinion anyway:

https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/article/magazine-debate-is-colour-purely-subjective

https://www.datacolor.com/learn/data-of-color/

After following this discussion for years as an anti-magentist, I've come around to your point of view, and traded my beloved M10-D for the M11 Glossy.  

[jaapv]

Profile and enjoy! 😉

[Tseg]

Easy, M11-M

[kiwidad]

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On 2/26/2025 at 6:04 PM, Ne314satel said:

Rent a Hasselblad x2d or 907x. Take some pictures, compare the color with a Leica. The Earth is round, although it is not visible.

Or alternatively pull out that M6 and shoot Kodak gold 200, fujicolor 100 Ektar 100 and portra 100. do you spot the difference? I remember choosing film for it bias when it came to color/contrast properties. There was no beating the fujichrome 50 for the blues and greens! 

I remember in the early days of desktop color the trauma of the industry and "pleasing color" and whilst that magazine cover in a controlled lighting environment might have perfect color it has a cast at the news stand on lower Broadway!

[otto.f]

On 2/9/2025 at 7:59 PM, Minigill said:

But what to replace it with ! 

That's very simple, M10-R. Unless you need a better battery, because you like to shoot continuous like paparazzi's do

[Ne314satel]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:04 PM, jaapv said:

In any postprocessing it is easy for the user - but the app is an obstacle. For now the solution seems to be to send the camera in to be calibrated differently.

We can all edit color manually. But the fact that Leica does nothing with the huge number of M11s sold, and its managers receive bonuses - surprises me. Leica has a very serious profit from each camera, which depends on customer loyalty. Without loyalty, Leica will become an ordinary Panasonic.

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, Ne314satel said:

We can all edit color manually.

And that's why this perceived issue will not stop anyone buying their next Leica.

[pgh]

24 minutes ago, pedaes said:

And that's why this perceived issue will not stop anyone buying their next Leica.

As someone who generally dislikes editing and the editing process I very much prefer to get everything in camera as close to what I want as possible. I will tell you this issue was a contributing factor in my not buying into the M11 series. Of course I have my own profiles and presets but the m11 files still proved more of a pain, like my old Sony files (but different). I’d rather be outside making pictures, or at least posting rants on this forum!

No the color wasn’t the only reason I was stopped from the m11 (though the sensor in general was a huge part of my abstaining), and I’m only one person, but it’s enough to disprove your thesis. 

[pedaes]

18 minutes ago, pgh said:

as close to what I want as possible.

Even by anyones best efforts, this will give you about 20% of the captured image's potential. With the M11's dynamic range and the AI masks available in Lr et al on top of the standard controls you will be looking at a 'flat' result 'out of camera'. Totally agree correct exposure and no blown highlights are an essential starting point.  Flame on!

[o2mpx]

We will only know how the M11 fared when production numbers are available. It seemed Leica acknowledged the issue of freezing with multiple firmware updates (perhaps more than what was done post M10 release)? But the color cast issue doesn’t seem to be addressed heads on like the freezing issue; perhaps indeed, Leica feels with post processing, files are malleable to make anyone happy?

I’ve been on the fence about adding the M11-D to the M10-R as it provides a compelling difference in shooting experience; but holding off due to the color cast issue. Perhaps when the M11-V comes out, there’s enough changes to the firmware to support a EVF that Leica would fold in some tweaks in the color…time will tell…

 

[pedaes]

2 minutes ago, o2mpx said:

cast issue.

Please don't forego an excellent camera and sensor for this non-sense . Try and take your own  II SD card to try a camera for yourself. Format card in camera, shoot as many frames as you can, ideally capture white cloud/blue sky and look at results yourself rather than rely on others opinions.

I would be happy to pm you some unprocessed DNG files if you can't get to a camera.

[Ne314satel]

2 hours ago, pedaes said:

And that's why this perceived issue will not stop anyone buying their next Leica.

I'm not sure about that. Let's talk a little about Leica's attitude to customers. The S3 system is forgotten along with the buyers of this system for tens of thousands of dollars (euro), the M9 camera, the 006 medium format with an CCD sensor - the buyers are forgotten (at best there is a discount on new equipment), M10 users ask where they can buy batteries, we have already discussed M11, etc. Personally, I have cancelled all investments in the M system.
I will just remind you what German quality is (if there are vinyl lovers here, they will understand me). I have several EMT vinyl players (some of the best in the world) from the 1940-1950s. At that time, EMT gave a lifetime warranty. But even now I can buy any original part in Germany. This is the care after 85 years from the date of manufacture)))

[pedaes]

1 minute ago, Ne314satel said:

Let's talk a little about Leica's attitude to customers.

I was referring to the 'colour-cast' which is very obvious topic of thread. Just for completeness, how many of the issues you list were you personally involved with?

[Ne314satel]

2 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I was referring to the 'colour-cast' which is very obvious topic of thread. Just for completeness, how many of the issues you list were you personally involved with?

You won't believe it, but in all of them))

[pedaes]

30 minutes ago, Ne314satel said:

You won't believe it, but in all of them))

In which case I commend you highly for 'only' having 84 posts!

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, pedaes said:

I was referring to the 'colour-cast' which is very obvious topic of thread. Just for completeness, how many of the issues you list were you personally involved with?

Isn't it "only" an AWB issue?

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[pgh]

4 hours ago, pedaes said:

Even by anyones best efforts, this will give you about 20% of the captured image's potential. With the M11's dynamic range and the AI masks available in Lr et al on top of the standard controls you will be looking at a 'flat' result 'out of camera'. Totally agree correct exposure and no blown highlights are an essential starting point.  Flame on!

An image’s potential is subjective.

Don’t get me wrong, I still post process to make something I (think) is better to look at than a totally raw file, but my point is that I prefer to do this with cameras that make this easier, not more time consuming. I do shoot with monochromes about 65% of the time, so this is easy enough already, but when I have to worry about color, well, the M10 or X2D both make this a lot easier than M11’s IME. 

Maybe if photoshop was a hobby of mine I’d have a different attitude, but for me being out in the field photographing is my job - being behind the computer is a negative externality of such a job and one that I prefer to minimize at every turn.