graphlex Posted February 12 Share #361 Posted February 12 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, lct said: I've kept good memories of my little X-E2, although i much preferred the digital CL, but i don't like much Fuj colors personally and i've been spending too much time in post to tweak them. Also a Fuji camera would proably need a thinner sensor stack to fit WA and UWA M lenses. And why would Leica users need an adapter to fit their M Lenses in the first place? Let alone that an adapter with roller cam has never been made AFAIK. Better use the real thing, a true M-mount body, be that at Leica price. YOLO 😉 All true. I had in mind, though, an M-mount BSI camera with a roller cam (but no 6-bit coding, which is patented). Edited February 12 by graphlex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Hi graphlex, Take a look here EVF M rumoured. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
graphlex Posted February 12 Share #362 Posted February 12 3 hours ago, pgk said: Why would Fuji want to support M lenses? Good point but Fuji was just an example. It might be some newcomer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrichie Posted February 12 Share #363 Posted February 12 (edited) I truly think the rumour on leica rumours is correct. It will be an M mount EVF camera [and recognisable as an M] with reduced buttons and a more modern rear [screen size etc]. Definitely a more modern aesthetic to appeal to the forward looking customer, whilst retaining the M experience. The rangefinder will always remain, but get more and more expensive. For me the M11 is AU$5k too expensive [and probably likely due to the Rangefinder as the Q343 is AU$11k] If this new M.E camera is around AU$10k it will be very attractive, and yes may take some Q sales, but that means more lens sales for Leica so swings and roundabouts. Edited February 12 by jrichie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntobias Posted February 12 Share #364 Posted February 12 we win everyway..........EVF, whatever it is will be great, it will get the best out of our M Glass and will NOT make our current camera body worse....that said, I just swapped my M10 for an M11 mono.....I may be tempted to get the new EVF/M12/whatever for colour work but I will still adore what I have! we win whatever ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 12 Share #365 Posted February 12 13 minutes ago, jrichie said: If this new M.E camera is around AU$10k it will be very attractive, and yes may take some Q sales, but that means more lens sales for Leica so swings and roundabouts. There's no way in hell it will be cheaper. Okay, maybe a grand at most, for appearance sake. But generally, Leica don't slide backwards on price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrichie Posted February 12 Share #366 Posted February 12 15 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: There's no way in hell it will be cheaper. Okay, maybe a grand at most, for appearance sake. But generally, Leica don't slide backwards on price. why not otherwise it makes their pricing structure seem very odd. the Q with an amazing lens is already $4k cheaper here. The SL3 which is basically the same camera with an L mount as an M camera with an EVF is also AU$3.3k cheaper. It should be similar in pricing to the SL3. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 12 Author Share #367 Posted February 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) 14 minutes ago, jrichie said: why not otherwise it makes their pricing structure seem very odd. the Q with an amazing lens is already $4k cheaper here. The SL3 which is basically the same camera with an L mount as an M camera with an EVF is also AU$3.3k cheaper. It should be similar in pricing to the SL3. If Leica release it as a model in the M11 range then it won’t be much lower in cost than the rangefinder. A little less for sure but Leica won’t “cheapen’ this particular range for a few sales. They will keep it high 100%. If it’s a new model range then lower is much easier. From what I’ve read on this thread, it’s more than likely going to be another M11 joining the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 12 Share #368 Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, costa43 said: [...] it’s more than likely going to be another M11 joining the team. We shall see but sans-RF M bodies have always been a variant of a previous model if i remember well. For instance, M1 and MD were variants of the M2, MDa of the M4 and MD-2 of the M4-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted February 12 Share #369 Posted February 12 1 hour ago, johntobias said: we win everyway..........EVF, whatever it is will be great, it will get the best out of our M Glass and will NOT make our current camera body worse....that said, I just swapped my M10 for an M11 mono.....I may be tempted to get the new EVF/M12/whatever for colour work but I will still adore what I have! we win whatever ! Oddly enough I think it would work best for mono! I quite often use lenses for that with massive foibles like the summilux 35mm pre-asph which can chuck a crazy internal reflection at will, also more likely to use a super wide tele like a 21mm or 15mm. All of these (as long as the EVF had decent resolution like 6ish mp or above) might be easier. Of course I'd be probably as happy with a visoflex 3 with the same abilities. Having said all of that, I currently like the happy accident and know what the 21 will capture by knowing the lens and looking at the scene! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
costa43 Posted February 12 Author Share #370 Posted February 12 25 minutes ago, lct said: We shall see but sans-RF M bodies have always been a variant of a previous model if i remember well. For instance, M1 and MD were variants of the M2, MDa of the M4 and MD-2 of the M4-2. My bet is on the M11-D body without iso dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark114 Posted February 12 Share #371 Posted February 12 Well I suspect that M-EVF will not have manual adjustment components such as range finder coupling etc that the manufacturing labor cost of m-evf should be way cheaper off setting whatever higher price in component going from RF optics to OLED EVF. I think how Leica will come up with EVF MF experience will determine whether M-EVF will be successful or not. A simple EVF in a body with the same auto zoom when focus tab is turned will not cut it. How the camera looks is also important. In order to catch both aging M users as well as outside people, it should look and feel like a classic. It'd be interesting to find out how much Leica is willing to go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 12 Share #372 Posted February 12 (edited) Let's face it, Leica have all the ideas and technology to do anything they want, the only impediment are the 'old crowd' who they still rely on to buy the cameras. So until there are enough of the 'new crowd' who've grown up on iPhones it's safe to say they are waiting for the old generation to die before the revolution will begin. They have never taken photographers along with them on a journey like other camera manufacturers but stuck to principles which have both sold lots of cameras and held them back at the same time, so we are the 'problem' for Leica. Edited February 12 by 250swb 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crem Posted February 12 Share #373 Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, 250swb said: Let's face it, Leica have all the ideas and technology to do anything they want, the only impediment are the 'old crowd' who they still rely on to buy the cameras. So until there are enough of the 'new crowd' who've grown up on iPhones it's safe to say they are waiting for the old generation to die before the revolution will begin. They have never taken photographers along with them on a journey like other camera manufacturers but stuck to principles which have both sold lots of cameras and held them back at the same time, so we are the 'problem' for Leica. So why wouldn't they finally split the M line into two separate digital cameras? Seems like it would solve that problem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark114 Posted February 12 Share #374 Posted February 12 Well If 'we' are removed from the market and Leica comes up with something radical, they will go bankrupt lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raizans Posted February 12 Share #375 Posted February 12 Leica wouldn’t make the EVF-M the flagship M-mount camera. It may not even end up being a high resolution, IBIS-equipped camera like I hope it will be. I bet it’ll be either the same price or a little bit less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsch Posted February 12 Share #376 Posted February 12 8 hours ago, phojomatic said: I made a quick mockup based on what I think the M11-E might look like, if ever released Nice work. Great idea to move the red dot, it gives the camera balance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 12 Share #377 Posted February 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Crem said: So why wouldn't they finally split the M line into two separate digital cameras? Seems like it would solve that problem. But with so many different models, which ones should go where? 🤔🤪 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 12 by evikne Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419143-evf-m-rumoured/?do=findComment&comment=5756531'>More sharing options...
Stevejack Posted February 12 Share #378 Posted February 12 4 hours ago, UliWer said: The „WYSIWYG“ argument is true since the first SLR was introduced. People who think this is essential have had the choice of other systems - even from Leica - for ages. An EVF-M wouldn’t add anything for them they can’t get elsewhere. DSLRs never had WYSIWYG in the way that EVFs do. I'm not sure which other cameras you're using which give you the same experience with M lenses, but the closest I have is the SL2 and the experience of using that camera isn't even close. The ISO and shutter speed dials on the M are dedicated and labelled so you can make adjustments as you walk around without looking through the viewfinder - even when the camera is switched off / asleep. Maybe if you use one of the Auto modes it wouldn't be such as issue but as a manual shooter those things make a massive difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 12 Share #379 Posted February 12 1 hour ago, jpark114 said: Well I suspect that M-EVF will not have manual adjustment components such as range finder coupling etc that the manufacturing labor cost of m-evf should be way cheaper off setting whatever higher price in component going from RF optics to OLED EVF. This is practical thinking, but you are now in the land of Leica. That's not how it works. if newbies that had to have the M11 but couldn't figure out the rangefinder then go and trade it in for an M-EVF that is considerably cheaper, Leica dealers will take a bath. They will need to keep the pricing competitive. But let's wait and see if it even becomes a reality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phojomatic Posted February 13 Share #380 Posted February 13 1 hour ago, costa43 said: My bet is on the M11-D body without iso dial. The first thing that struck me when I saw the M11-D photos is that when Leica removed the ISO dial, it really looked like they were prepping for something that needed more space in that area. Granted the M11-D has ISO on the back, but it could have just as easily been on the back like the M10-D with EV Comp and WiFi dial. I've used an M10-D and I really liked that design, with the caveat that the WiFi was pretty painful to connect at the time. On the other hand, rumors suggest that the top cover is 3mm smaller, and if so, the internals could be the same, possibly even with the ISO dial in place but it would need a shorter stalk (and new part number for inventory, etc). Remove the ISO dial and I guess we can use the back button to change settings? Seems counter to the principle of exposure triangle of ISO, Shutter and Aperture. FWIW, I noticed that the Visio 2 height is the same as the RF area. I made a very quick mockup using that screen and a metal diopter control....this should be possible to implement in a water resistant way using the same approach as the rear dial. I also made the mockup top plate 3mm shorter. I didn't have a studio shot of the Visio and had to use a photo, but in concept I think it could solve the diopter issue. At the very least, although I don't love the rectangle, perhaps Leica could use a metal diopter wheel like this on future M's and give us "aging outs" a little help. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/419143-evf-m-rumoured/?do=findComment&comment=5756549'>More sharing options...
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