EVF M rumoured

[NightPix]

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5 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Yup. Silly. As one of the old grey rangefinder users I thought that uproar was ridiculous. 

Keeping that removable bottom plate was way weirder than replacing it with a modern camera bottom.

I wonder, if one were to query the general photographic enthusiast public, just how many could even tell you why that plate was removable on the old cameras in the first place. Nikon and Canon and Olympus and Minolta film cameras from the old SLR era didn't have 'em. How many folks who got into photography during that time ever even saw a Leica being loaded?

Retaining that plate was simply silly.

All that said, I'm a Leica rangefinder user from another time, I guess, and its limitations, obvious to many, don't bother me much, and never did, since my "photographic eye" (or whatever) developed largely between the focal lengths of 35 and 90 mm (maybe sometimes the old beat up Hektor 135).

The limitations were in me, in my seeing, in my vision, in my technique, in my capability to capture what the mind's eye was envisioning. Grumbling about equipment got me nowhere. IBIS, OIS, Megapixels, these were on nobody's radar.

Measure the light, place the exposure, see where the zones fall, process accordingly, print carefully, see if you made it...

...and then try again. 

No problem. It was great!

As for what's coming?

No problem. It'll be great!

Who's making that photograph anyway, eh?

Technology moves forward, so the tools change, but it’s still the individual behind the camera who creates the image. (I know a very successful photographer who uses a 100 year old wooden bellows camera with glass plates.)

I’ve been following this thread for 174 pages, through both great technical discussions and a whole lot of angst about a rumored M-style camera with an EVF. I’ve learned a lot from the technical comments, but I do not understand the angst. There are a lot of cameras out there that I don't plan to buy, and if I don’t like what Leica offers in an EVF M camera, I probably won’t buy that one either. But if it happens to sell well and is a hit, that’s good for Leica. But I simply do not understand how that success hurts any photographer who happens to prefer a rangefinder. 

Edited 22 hours ago by NightPix

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[NightPix]

19 minutes ago, Ray Vonn said:

Just imagine the reaction if, after all this, the actual announcement is that the new camera is...a FF same sized Leica CL. 

Basically an interchangable lens Q. Would be awkward with some of the larger L-lenses, tho. 

[UliWer]

I followed the thread as well, though I cannot remember one simple posting where somebody expressed "angst" (fear) about any new camera which might be introduced sooner or later.

People who are skeptical whether the M-system is really adequate for using only EVF to focus manual lenses, or who are not sure whether an EVF in an M will have the quality they are looking for, or who think the SL or Q are the better equipped systems for using EVF don't fear anything. Perhaps they are just not limited to the M-system, or they tried the EVF for long and made up their opinion based on their experience.  

 

[lct]

1 hour ago, NightPix said:

[...] I do not understand the angst. There are a lot of cameras out there that I don't plan to buy, and if I don’t like what Leica offers in an EVF M camera, I probably won’t buy that one either. But if it happens to sell well and is a hit, that’s good for Leica. But I simply do not understand how that success hurts any photographer who happens to prefer a rangefinder. 

The angst is understandable among those who fear that a possible success of the MEV1, or whatever its name, will overshadow the rangefinder to such an extent that it will eventually disappear. I remember the 1970s, when the rise of SLR cameras raised fears of such a demise. The M system had even been relegated to second place behind the Leicaflex in Leica catalogs at the time. Things improved after the debacle of the M5, if memory serves, perhaps because the Leicaflex was struggling to compete with Japanese cameras such as the Nikon F then. Leica historians should know better about that.

[DadDadDaddyo]

The angst is understandable, I guess, but odd. I'm as much an old Leica guy as anyone, but I feel no angst at all about whatever is to be announced. 

Decent cameras and lenses work for years, and Leica makes not just decent, but genuinely excellent cameras and lenses. Most of my Leica bodies and literally all of my Leica lenses are older than either my M11 or M11M. Everything works great. 

So far I've been using Leica rangefinder bodies and lenses for 57 years. That's almost 80% of my life. I've still got the Leica bodies and lenses I was using in 1968.

I'm pretty sure there will be Leica rangefinder gear for me to use as long as I'm able. I'm pretty sure it will all outlast me, as will the pictures I've made with it over the years. 

What is there to worry about?

I hope that whatever comes strengthens Leica's position. Their equipment, and the uses to which it has been put over the years, have earned Leica its unique loyalty. Leica certainly has the right to innovate as well, to add to an already amazing story. I hope they succeed. 

[gbealnz]

While not one to follow the rumour site(s), I see just now the event has been cancelled?

[lct]

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7 minutes ago, gbealnz said:

While not one to follow the rumour site(s), I see just now the event has been cancelled?

In the USA. Elsewhere i don't know.

[rxj]

1 hour ago, gbealnz said:

While not one to follow the rumour site(s), I see just now the event has been cancelled?

Event in Singapore and Australia are still going ahead. No cancellation notice yet.

[Tseg]

2 hours ago, gbealnz said:

While not one to follow the rumour site(s), I see just now the event has been cancelled?

The ole’ “Rumor that there is no rumor”.  Can’t make this stuff up.  It is almost as if the government were running things.

[adan]

2 hours ago, gbealnz said:

While not one to follow the rumour site(s), I see just now the event has been cancelled?

2 hours ago, lct said:

In the USA. Elsewhere i don't know.

Yeah - sorry about that, to the extent it is a US problem.

There appear to be air travel disruptions in Germany and the EU right now. But also disruptions in the US regarding government services (a shut down, other politics of which I say no more, and should probably not be part of this EVF-M discussion in any event) - which could include immigration and air-traffic control services.

Key personnel for the events may not be able to get to or into the US at the moment.

One (non-political) example (Frankfurt being the home-town airport for Wetzlar). But just the tip of the iceberg...

https://www.airhelp.com/en-int/flight-disruptions/frankfurt-munich-airport-delays-cancellations-19102025/

[kiwidad]

This is the amusing part from the rumor site to me “I am not sure if this means canceleation of the Leica M EV1 camera announcement all together, or something more specific to the US market (tariffs?).”

it is not know if this was an announcement for this rumored product to start with but since it isn’t even known to exist it seems like a statement of self validation. Wouldn’t hurt to spell check before posting though. Bit of a chuckle too on the implication the cancellation might be caused by US tarifs! Always amused to see that little anti tweek there. If you can afford a 10k camera a tarif isn’t going to hurt I suspect.

[NigelG]

Hmm…maybe spellcheck “tarif” (sic.) 😉

[Stephencdean]

The stock is already at the dealers, for those still pointing out the camera is non-existent. They just can’t sell until Thursday. I think Leica want it to go on sale then, without waiting, so if they can’t get it to US, that probably explains the postponement there. 

[pgk]

9 hours ago, NightPix said:

Technology moves forward, so the tools change.....

There are a lot of cameras out there that I don't plan to buy, and if I don’t like what Leica offers in an EVF M camera, I probably won’t buy that one either. But if it happens to sell well and is a hit, that’s good for Leica. But I simply do not understand how that success hurts any photographer who happens to prefer a rangefinder. 

There is a risk to Leica in introducing an EVF-M which has the prime purpose of being able to use small MF lenses at its core. It will be compared with numerous other EVF cameras AND their lenses. I would suspect that such comparisons will show that many EVF cameras are highly capable and that the differences are nuance, or even mute, in the end result. Which carries reputational risk for Leica, as an expensive, technically backwards camera which produces comparable results with other cameras and merely has the accolade of using the admittedly exquisite M lenses, is unlikely to do Leica's perfectionist reputation any good.

Whilst the SL range and rf-M range have clear, defined roles and are good and in the case of the rf-Ms, different. I struggle to see how an EVF-M will promote Leica's position of excellence because it may promote undesirable comparisons. It may be succesful though, and if such a camera is launched I hope it is. But to ignore the downsides (based on specification) is not angst.

Edited 13 hours ago by pgk
typos

[Smogg]

Perhaps the camera froze an inappropriate number of times during the presentation preparation, and the developers decided that the firmware wasn't ready yet?

[Smogg]

40 minutes ago, pgk said:

There is a risk to Leica in introducing an EVF-M which has the prime purpose of being able to use small MF lenses at its core. It will be compared with numerous other EVF cameras AND their lenses. I would suspect that such comparisons will show that many EVF cameras are highly capable and that the differences are nuance, or even mute, in the end result. Which carries reputational risk for Leica, as an expensive, technically backwards camera which produces comparable results with other cameras and merely has the accolade of using the admittedly exquisite M lenses, is unlikely to do Leica's perfectionist reputation any good.

Whilst the SL range and rf-M range have clear, defined roles and are good and in the case of the rf-Ms, different. I struggle to see how an EVF-M will promote Leica's position of excellence because it may promote undesirable comparisons. It may be succesful though, and if such a camera is launched I hope it is. But to ignore the downsides (based on specification) is not angst.

In fact, there isn't much choice on the market right now among compact cameras with high-quality EVF and LCD and interchangeable lenses, so there's nothing to compare the EV1 to.

[Smudgerer]

14 minutes ago, Smogg said:

In fact, there isn't much choice on the market right now among compact cameras with high-quality EVF and LCD and interchangeable lenses, so there's nothing to compare the EV1 to.

Perhaps so, but even the few that could be rated as "competition" are likely to have IBIS and AF as standard which are almost required features for many, and of course they'll come in at least half the price that Leica will no doubt peg the new camera at..........There's a lot of Hoo Haa from Leica-ists about the value of Leica M glass, and yes to some perhaps fading extent they do have a point, BUT nowadays there's many 3rd party and other mount lenses that are just as good as Leica's offerings and sometimes better for a lot less money, the main advantage that Leica lenses had was their compact sizes however even that attribute is fading into the rear view mirror too.

But that being said there's a very resilient customer / owner base that exists for Leica stuff, albeit many ageing and close to being "brown bread" thus out of the market for good, so again I think Leica have done their homework, they know their customer base very well and are I think trying to expand it beyond the crumbling existing one to what the punters will bear regarding pricing.....No doubt there's a good margin on the product too which will cushion lower sales numbers, they are not that stupid.

For those in the Leica M rangefinder system, film or digital, I think a M EV-F could well be a good "B" camera in their kit, and probably might even to prove to be one that will have more usage than the RF M's soon enough because the majority of camera users still only view their images on screens, post to websites, share by email and to that extent it really doesn't matter a damn what you use as a camera, 90% of what's out there is more than good enough for that. It's the cache of having a Leica that's a hook, and the fact that with an EVF M you'd still be able to use one's existing M glass, ( plus have an adjustable diopter....at last! ), whether that's worth the expenditure is up to the depth of the individual's pocket.   

[Markey]

16 minutes ago, Smudgerer said:

Perhaps so, but even the few that could be rated as "competition" are likely to have IBIS and AF as standard which are almost required features for many, and of course they'll come in at least half the price that Leica will no doubt peg the new camera at..........There's a lot of Hoo Haa from Leica-ists about the value of Leica M glass, and yes to some perhaps fading extent they do have a point, BUT nowadays there's many 3rd party and other mount lenses that are just as good as Leica's offerings and sometimes better for a lot less money, the main advantage that Leica lenses had was their compact sizes however even that attribute is fading into the rear view mirror too.

But that being said there's a very resilient customer / owner base that exists for Leica stuff, albeit many ageing and close to being "brown bread" thus out of the market for good, so again I think Leica have done their homework, they know their customer base very well and are I think trying to expand it beyond the crumbling existing one to what the punters will bear regarding pricing.....No doubt there's a good margin on the product too which will cushion lower sales numbers, they are not that stupid.

For those in the Leica M rangefinder system, film or digital, I think a M EV-F could well be a good "B" camera in their kit, and probably might even to prove to be one that will have more usage than the RF M's soon enough because the majority of camera users still only view their images on screens, post to websites, share by email and to that extent it really doesn't matter a damn what you use as a camera, 90% of what's out there is more than good enough for that. It's the cache of having a Leica that's a hook, and the fact that with an EVF M you'd still be able to use one's existing M glass, ( plus have an adjustable diopter....at last! ), whether that's worth the expenditure is up to the depth of the individual's pocket.   

As a M user since the `80`s I think that sums up the situation very well.

I meet a fair few photographers out on the street and in UK camera clubs and the majority don`t know what a Rangefinder is although they have heard of Leica .

"They`re very expensive aren`t they ?" 

The company needs to address that.

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[ApoVision]

12 hours ago, bobtodrick said:

I don’t think a reported 1% drop in share price quite makes it an ‘unsuccessful car company’.

Sorry, have you ever tried to read a stock chart?

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[FrozenInTime]

5 minutes ago, ApoVision said:

Sorry, have you ever tried to read a stock chart?

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