What new S should differentiate from SL besides larger sensor and perhaps more MPs?

[davidmknoble]

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I really enjoy the X2D, although I prefer the older lenses and not the new "XCDv" lense because of the insane field curvature (I had the 38, 55 and 90v and traded them all) for landscape work.  However, the S is still the easiest by far to nail the graduated filters.  The SL system and the X2D (and CVF 50c) are difficult to get just right the first time because the EVF counterblances the change in light.  I also find that of all the digital work, my S (typically) requires the least editing to get to my final image, even less than the X2D, although in Phocus, it typically doesn't take too much.

I do expect that Leica will come up with some wow factor to add to the S system, but we just don't know yet. As it has been in the past, the S System is a little more intentional and you either have a use for it, or you don't.  It isn't really for experimenting.

Just my opinion.

[Leica Land]

i heard some rumour that it will be a SL with bigger sensor using the current L mount.

[irenedp]

I will wait for the new S. One of the main reasons is my investment so far in the S system. I believe the S lenses should be good enough for 100 MP, but that’s a question mark.  Depending on that and the specs, i will go for the S4 or look at the Hasselblad. I like the color and the ibis. 

[BernardC]

8 hours ago, Leica Land said:

i heard some rumour that it will be a SL with bigger sensor using the current L mount.

Not possible, as far as I can tell. If you measure the inside opening of the L mount, including electronic contacts and other mechanical bits, it's smaller than a medium format sensor. The prototype shown on Leica Rumors a while back (which was a screen grab from a Leica presentation) shows a bigger lens mount. Presumably an L-mount adapter will fit inside. In a perfect world the SL will also have an adapter for medium format lenses: the new mount look like it sits proud of the body, so it's not impossible.

I think the new S's unique feature will be cross-compatibility between "full frame", medium format, and video.You don't get that with any other system, although Fuji keeps teasing a medium format video camera. From an end-user's perspective, it means that you only need one system to shoot any type of content, with the exception of super-telephoto sports stuff which is the exclusive domain of high-end Canon and Nikon bodies.

The appeal is obvious for professionals (except sports shooters), but it's also very tempting for advanced amateurs: you'll be able to use a single workflow, all of your images print the same way without hours of extra work, you only need one flash system, extreme lenses (Noctilux, ultra-wide, super-tele) are easier to find, etc.

My guess is that the body price will be similar to the M, so above the SL3, but not as much as the old S3/S-007.

[tom0511]

I really love the optical quality of the S lenses. But then I also love the flexibility and optical quality of the xcd 20-35 lens, and the smaller size of the 38 and 90v lenses (personally I am one of the people who are seeing more advantages than disadvantages in the newer xcd lenses). I can carry my x2d with 20-35+90 in a small 7l sling bag. The color of lR profiles for the Hassy are better than those for Leica IMO (no matter if S/SL or M).

But what bothers me most is that we do not get any official information from Leica, and Leica is soo slow with new products. I have some sources for information, but with Leica you never know what really happens and when.

I keep my S equipment, but I am disappointed that we did not get a real upgraded body over the last 5 years, and we are waiting and waiting...

Thats why I prefer the Hassy system for now, which is real, available and works fine.

 

[Einst_Stein]

5 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I really love the optical quality of the S lenses. But then I also love the flexibility and optical quality of the xcd 20-35 lens, and the smaller size of the 38 and 90v lenses (personally I am one of the people who are seeing more advantages than disadvantages in the newer xcd lenses). I can carry my x2d with 20-35+90 in a small 7l sling bag. The color of lR profiles for the Hassy are better than those for Leica IMO (no matter if S/SL or M).

But what bothers me most is that we do not get any official information from Leica, and Leica is soo slow with new products. I have some sources for information, but with Leica you never know what really happens and when.

I keep my S equipment, but I am disappointed that we did not get a real upgraded body over the last 5 years, and we are waiting and waiting...

Thats why I prefer the Hassy system for now, which is real, available and works fine.

 

You really don't have to worry what Leica is going to do or announce, do you? Just enjoy your Hassy. 

[ZHNL]

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X2D set the bar high in term of price/quality ratio is the best thing can happen for potential Leica S4 buyers. 
it will regulate S4 price to prevent DOA. 

[tom0511]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Einst_Stein:

You really don't have to worry what Leica is going to do or announce, do you? Just enjoy your Hassy. 

I do enjoy my Hassy, but I have spent a lot of money for my 8 S-lenses and would like to be able to use them with a precise AF and IBIS (I shoot mainly handhold), with a body which takes advantage of the innovations of the last years. As I said, in the end I prefer the rendering of the S-lenses. I also would like to know if there will be a new S-body, how good these lenses will work on it or if one needs new lenses anyways. And if so, how long will it take until they appear on the market.

I I would have had more information from Leicas timing plans, I might even not have bought the Hassy. Or I might sell my S equipment before it looses  its value even more.

I still cross my fingers that an S4 will make it to the market and that it will work fine with the "old" lenses. 

 

[davidmknoble]

I enjoy the Hasselblad system as well, and while the color is absolutely stunning, the new lenses leave a lot to be desired for landscape work.  The field curvature is really bad on the newest prime lenses and the focus shift makes setting up critical focus for landscape work more difficult at best.  The sale of Hasselblad made the lenses sub par compared to the original lenses like the 35-70, the 45, 60, 80 which all work much better for landscape work and were designed and built under original ownership - I say this after using the 38, 55 and 90 and then selling them when I couldn’t get the results.  I understand that other types of photography may not worry so much about these issues, but using grad filters and focusing within the depth of field desired is an issue for landscape work.  I am successful with it, but using the older lens designs.

Leica S lenses, in general, don’t have these issues and the S bodies are stellar in determining close focus and far focus for depth of field work.  At the end of the day, the ability to quickly get the settings perfect and get a high keep rate of images taken is more important to me.  The current S system does that, so if a new system can improve on that, I’m game when the time comes.

The hasselblad CFV back has made working in digital and film (120mm film) efficient, just like the SL system allows using M lenses and M film bodies, or S lenses and S bodies in conjunction with the SL.

Leica has the lens capability over the other current medium format providers (Fuji, Hasselblad) and has a history of developing lenses that last into new higher resolution technology.  What remains is what innovations will they come up with to further the S system?

This is all from the perspective of a landscape photographer.

[irenedp]

Thanks David for the insight. 
 

One thing you said stirred my curiosity. Has Hasselblad changed ownership recently? 

[davidmknoble]

10 hours ago, irenedp said:

Thanks David for the insight. 
 

One thing you said stirred my curiosity. Has Hasselblad changed ownership recently? 

In general terms, the minority shareholder bought a majority stake in 2017.  That removed the majority ownership in Sweden and took it to Asia.  (DJI).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2016/09/28/hasselblad-reinvents-itself-with-swedish-engineered-digital-medium-format-cameras/ 

They have done a stellar job on the digital body side (IMHO) with the CFV 50 and the evolution to the X2D.   However, in 2018 (just after the change) the last of the orignal XCD lenses became available to order - the 80mm 60mm and 135mm.  Then, several years later the 38, 55 and 90v lenses came out.  

 

[tjphoto]

1 hour ago, davidmknoble said:

In general terms, the minority shareholder bought a majority stake in 2017.  That removed the majority ownership in Sweden and took it to Asia.  (DJI).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2016/09/28/hasselblad-reinvents-itself-with-swedish-engineered-digital-medium-format-cameras/ 

They have done a stellar job on the digital body side (IMHO) with the CFV 50 and the evolution to the X2D.   However, in 2018 (just after the change) the last of the orignal XCD lenses became available to order - the 80mm 60mm and 135mm.  Then, several years later the 38, 55 and 90v lenses came out.  

 

 

1 hour ago, davidmknoble said:

In general terms, the minority shareholder bought a majority stake in 2017.  That removed the majority ownership in Sweden and took it to Asia.  (DJI).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2016/09/28/hasselblad-reinvents-itself-with-swedish-engineered-digital-medium-format-cameras/ 

They have done a stellar job on the digital body side (IMHO) with the CFV 50 and the evolution to the X2D.   However, in 2018 (just after the change) the last of the orignal XCD lenses became available to order - the 80mm 60mm and 135mm.  Then, several years later the 38, 55 and 90v lenses came out.  

 

Kipon is advertising a new Fuji GFX to Leica S adapter on their website coming out in April.

I’m excited to see how the S lenses look on a modern 100 megapixel sensor. 

[tjphoto]

Kipon is advising a new Fuji GFX to Leica S adapter on their site coming in April.

I’m excited to see how the magnificent S lenses look on a modern 100 megapixel sensor.

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[irenedp]

thanks David for the clarification. Definitely they do have an issue if their lenses are not good enough.  That happened to Fuji when they moved from 50 to 100 MPs.  Interesting to see how leica S lenses will work on the GFX: will tell us if the S lenses as they are today will be fully usable in the S4.  

[BernardC]

8 hours ago, tjphoto said:

I’m excited to see how the magnificent S lenses look on a modern 100 megapixel sensor.

They will look the same as they did on a 64MP sensor, it's not a big jump in resolution. I think people will be surprised how their look compares to native Fuji lenses, especially at wider apertures. It might be hard to mix both lens systems in the same project.