Leica SL3-S: ‘More light’ – The Unbearable Lightness of Being

[jaapv]

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13 minutes ago, ALScott said:

In my very short foray, so far, into wildlife I needed good AF all the time.  I think most, if not all, of that is due to my just starting to shoot wildlife. I needed help on elk, moose, coyotes, bison and an eagle flying very close to me.  I got some good shots with the SL3 but missed some too.  If I had more FPS I could have gotten even more keepers. I prefer wildlife pics with some movement, but that's just me.  I hunt and most of what I will photograph is whitetail and coyotes.  The coyotes here never, I mean never, stop moving.  The deer will stand in one place but not statue like and some great pics could be had when they are running.  I have years of grandson's sports ahead to shoot but that's in my wheelhouse from my newspaper days.  Sports are way easier to predict than an animal imo.  The are a few reviews out there already shared here and all mentioned the AF improving over the SL3 so great!  Right?  Plus, nobody here has one or used one other than the reviews mentioned, no?  One of those reviewers seems to be well respected.  For a while I read many posts wishing Maestro IV this and that and it has that but that seems completely lost now.  So this is all just conjecture at this point.  It's said AF is better, I think it will be, how much will be down to the opinion of each user who gets one and what their wants and expectations are not necessarily what the actual facts are.  Guess what, it probably won't be as good as whatever S, N or C and really who cares?  Really if that's what you want buy that.  And don't say it should be as good as whatever S, N, or C because of cost, where it is in product line etc.  That doesn't matter either.  It's an entirely different company with an entirely different philosophy.  Plus, nobody ever mentions those other bodies are plastic slapped over a metal frame.  My SL3 doesn't appear to have much plastic on it.  That alone would drive cost way, way up.  Let Leica start building like that and the freaking sky would fall. 

Let’s agree to disagree on wildlife - it has been my game since 1988. I’ve added it up and I have spent over three years out in the African bush over time. I have never felt dependent on AF and rarely shoot bursts. More like decisive moment. The problem with bursts, unless you have really high FPS like the last few years, your shutter is closed more than 90% of the time so you are more likely to miss than to get the shot. 

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

50 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I. Wonder why people always lump sports and wildlife together. They both use long lenses and there the resemblance stops. Wildlife is not about frantic action. It is about observation, understanding and recording nature  and feeling for the outdoors. Except on rare occasions ( somebody mentioned photographing a buffalo stampede) there is absolutely no need for cutting edge AF or extremely fast sensor readouts. In fact, when AF fails, switching to manual focus will save the day. 

Note that the top wildlife photographers on this forum like Michali are more than happy with their Leica SL/Sigma combinations. 

Because wildlife isn’t all elephants at the watering hole.

There are birds in flight. Insects buzzing around. Squirrels stuffing their nuts in. And lions hunting. Zebra escaping. Hippos charging. How many animal portraits do you want to take.

I don’t believe that you need any specific gear to take great photos. But it’s 2025 and there is gear better suited to the task with more available lens options, more resolution, less distorted wings and slanted backgrounds. It’s sure a fun challenge to be an expert in animal behaviour. But for most, they’re lucky if they get one big trip in a lifetime.

And my A1ii has full time manual focus as well, PLUS all the speed. And pre-capture. And a wider selection of lenses. And a UI designed around getting this from the camera.

FWIW. Not all sports require an action camera either. Darts? Most people get that sports and wildlife involve fast moving subjects at least some of the time but not all of the time.

Gordon

[jaapv]

There are cheetahs hunting g, wild dog running dolphins jumping antelope fighting insects flying, rhino charging and so on. A few buffalo and coyotes sounds pretty civilized. The problem with Zebras is that they normally turn their bums towards you.
I leave the sleeping Lions to the first-timers ( not meant negatively we all start somewhere) unless they do something interesting which the uninitiated normally don’t see coming. As for Elephants at the waterhole- plenty of action splashing and playing there. Much like a bunch of kids that so many members here complain about. 

[trix4ever]

If they really wanted to go stealthy wouldn't a black dot be better?

I hate the red dot on my SL2-S, it just annoys me next to the blacked out logo.

[Malabito]

Sadly to see how the SL3s is just a Panasonic S5 II... it was kind of expected, but still, who said dreaming was bad?

This doesn't really make me want to upgrade my SL2s... The only reason I would have wanted to upgrade was for a higher MP sensor and great autofocus. Neither was achieved with this new upgrade. Yes, autofocus is probably better than the SL2s, but not as good as the Panasonic S5 II, whose autofocus quality is still not excellent.

Time to decide if I get rid of my SL system and move to Nikon or wait for Panasonic to come out with a Panasonic S2.

The sl2s with manual lenses is excellent but for the seldom times i need great autofocus its hard to use, specially in low light.

Edited January 17 by Malabito

[helged]

32 minutes ago, Malabito said:

autofocus is probably better than the SL2s, but not as good as the Panasonic S5 II

"probably"? AF-S is excellent on SL2x as well as SL3. But AF-C is way better on SL3 than SL2-S.

Haven't tested the SL3-S yet, but I expext AFc to top SL3 by quite some margin.

That being said, S5ii clearly lags the top players wrt AFc. The same for SL3-S.

Personally, I find the S5ii-body too small for my hand, and I don't like its VF. The button layout aren't a favoritt, either. This in contrast to the SL-bodies, particularly SL3 that has got the buttons on the right side of the back screen. 

All in all I look forward to test the SL3-S. Based on using S5ii, I believe SL3-S serves me well. But that's only me and for my type of photography. 

[jonnyboy]

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AF-s excellent in the SL2-S it's a blasphemy to say. It's barely acceptable imo.
 

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

AF-s excellent in the SL2-S it's a blasphemy to say. It's barely acceptable imo.
 

'blasphemy'? This is a camera we're discussing, not extreme politics. Time to get things in perspective.
I agree that AFs is excellent in the SL2-S - and I shoot plenty of moving subjects.
IMO and IME of course - we all have different photographic needs and experience.

[tom0511]

I find the SL/SL2/SL2-s afs was llready quite good, the af-c not really usable for faster things.

Now with the SL3 the AF-C has become usable (IMO), but still quite a difference to top AF cameras like Z8/9 R3 etc.

The Sl3-s being obviously somewhere between the SL3 and the top AF cameras. Owners of s S5II probably can tell us how good the af Iis suitable for sports.

 Maybe I should check out a S5II one day myself. I do however remember from my S1rs that I greatly prefered the Leica user interface.

[CptSlevin]

33 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

AF-s excellent in the SL2-S it's a blasphemy to say. It's barely acceptable imo.
 

Use Leica SL2S in iAF with Sigma lenses for reportage, portraits in extreme low light and street photography.
I previously owned Canon R6 + RF 28-70 and can state that after firmware 6.0 Leica SL2S CDAF is like PDAF of Canon R6.

I shoot a lot and have zero issues with af of Leica SL2S.

[Malabito]

3 hours ago, helged said:

"probably"? AF-S is excellent on SL2x as well as SL3. But AF-C is way better on SL3 than SL2-S.

Haven't tested the SL3-S yet, but I expext AFc to top SL3 by quite some margin.

That being said, S5ii clearly lags the top players wrt AFc. The same for SL3-S.

Personally, I find the S5ii-body too small for my hand, and I don't like its VF. The button layout aren't a favoritt, either. This in contrast to the SL-bodies, particularly SL3 that has got the buttons on the right side of the back screen. 

All in all I look forward to test the SL3-S. Based on using S5ii, I believe SL3-S serves me well. But that's only me and for my type of photography. 

I have the SL2s and used the SL3.

Autofocusing with the SL2s in low light or in backlight is a disaster, no matter the lens. I used SL, Sigma, and Panasonic lenses; with all of them, it performs terribly.

Regarding the SL3 autofocus, yes, it is better than the SL2s, but still lags behind the competition, including the Panasonic S5 II. Actually, it is only a bit better than the SL2. In summary, if you are okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will be happy with the SL3; if you are not okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will still find the SL3 lacking.

The Panasonic S5 II has better autofocus than the sl3, but it still lags behind the competition (this is for photos; I don't know about video).

Regarding the sl3s I have no idea how it will be, but considering the sl3 and the Panasonic S5 II, I am pretty sure it will be only a slight improvement over the former.

Anyways, I don't think anyone smart buys these cameras hoping for great autofocus. I sure didn't when I bought the SL2s, and if I upgrade to SL3s, I won't have any expectations either.

Leica has terrible autofocus software implementation and phase detect us just something new for them.

[CptSlevin]

6 minutes ago, Malabito said:

I have the SL2s and used the SL3.

Autofocusing with the SL2s in low light or in backlight is a disaster, no matter the lens. I used SL, Sigma, and Panasonic lenses; with all of them, it performs terribly.

Regarding the SL3 autofocus, yes, it is better than the SL2s, but still lags behind the competition, including the Panasonic S5 II. Actually, it is only a bit better than the SL2. In summary, if you are okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will be happy with the SL3; if you are not okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will still find the SL3 lacking.

The Panasonic S5 II has better autofocus than the sl3, but it still lags behind the competition (this is for photos; I don't know about video).

Regarding the sl3s I have no idea how it will be, but considering the sl3 and the Panasonic S5 II, I am pretty sure it will be only a slight improvement over the former.

Anyways, I don't think anyone smart buys these cameras hoping for great autofocus. I sure didn't when I bought the SL2s, and if I upgrade to SL3s, I won't have any expectations either.

Leica has terrible autofocus software implementation and phase detect us just something new for them.

Zero AF issues on backlit shots and neon lights (iso 3200)

https://mega.nz/folder/uYJEzC4b#KSPkO1slnpGTRPzzv2St3Q

iAF with face detect on.
Used lenses: Sigma 50mm 1.2 / Sigma 28-45 1.8

Razor sharp and lighting fast

[AndyAV]

20 minutes ago, Malabito said:

I have the SL2s and used the SL3.

Autofocusing with the SL2s in low light or in backlight is a disaster, no matter the lens. I used SL, Sigma, and Panasonic lenses; with all of them, it performs terribly.

Regarding the SL3 autofocus, yes, it is better than the SL2s, but still lags behind the competition, including the Panasonic S5 II. Actually, it is only a bit better than the SL2. In summary, if you are okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will be happy with the SL3; if you are not okay with the SL2's autofocus, you will still find the SL3 lacking.

The Panasonic S5 II has better autofocus than the sl3, but it still lags behind the competition (this is for photos; I don't know about video).

Regarding the sl3s I have no idea how it will be, but considering the sl3 and the Panasonic S5 II, I am pretty sure it will be only a slight improvement over the former.

Anyways, I don't think anyone smart buys these cameras hoping for great autofocus. I sure didn't when I bought the SL2s, and if I upgrade to SL3s, I won't have any expectations either.

Leica has terrible autofocus software implementation and phase detect us just something new for them.

I have all three SL3, SL2-S and now SL3-S. What I can share now, as a former user of Sony Alpha series, as well as former Canon RF series, and also former Panasonic professional shooter, SL3-S punches well above Canon and Panasonic with the AF in iAF, AFC and AF-S. I was actually stunned to witness how accurate and prompt the SL3-S with the improved AF Ai over what was a hit and miss SL3 and even SL2-S AF. Now as it is, SL3-S is competing neck to neck with Sony Alpha (with GM lenses) on AF performance and I can totally trust it 100% for any sort of AF needs. Even when pitted against strong glare lights in extreme ISO in low light situation, SL3-S AF did not fail to impress.

You can check my video here on how crazily good the AF on SL3-S:

 

[LocalHero1953]

44 minutes ago, Malabito said:

Autofocusing with the SL2s in low light or in backlight is a disaster, no matter the lens. I used SL, Sigma, and Panasonic lenses; with all of them, it performs terribly.

 

Chalk and cheese experience. I have no problems with iAF with the SL2-S in low light or backlit, for moving subjects. I use Leica zoom and Apo lenses, plus Sigma 85/1.4. The Summilux-SL 50 is slow and uncertain, but that's the lens, not the camera, and it's a penalty I'll put up with for the sake of the lens's quality.

[Cronilux]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

Let’s agree to disagree on wildlife - it has been my game since 1988. I’ve added it up and I have spent over three years out in the African bush over time. I have never felt dependent on AF and rarely shoot bursts. More like decisive moment. The problem with bursts, unless you have really high FPS like the last few years, your shutter is closed more than 90% of the time so you are more likely to miss than to get the shot. 

Just because You have a different approach, doesn’t mean it’s the only way or the only correct way to do it. Different preferences can lead to different needs. 

[FrozenInTime]

The high resolution EVF and compatibility with M lenses, look to be key differentiators from the S5IIx (i.e. same proposition that is sold the SL2-S to me; but I lost confidence in AF and size of SL lenses )

The reports of poor magnified zoom-in, for manual focused lenses, remains something I would want to see before committing ... until then it is GH7 with Leica branded m43 lenses, and the M10, MP etc. for me.

 

[LocalHero1953]

4 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

The high resolution EVF and compatibility with M lenses, look to be key differentiators from the S5IIx (i.e. same proposition that is sold the SL2-S to me; but I lost confidence in AF and size of SL lenses )

The reports of poor magnified zoom-in, for manual focused lenses, remains something I would want to see before committing ... until then it is GH7 with Leica branded m43 lenses, and the M10, MP etc. for me.

 

Other differentiators from the S5iix include Compact Flash Express storage, which is a big step forward for self-contained video recording, a much higher res EVF (as you note) and slightly larger LCD. There's also what sounds like a step up in connectivity with the Fotos app. And the Leica has a dedicated timecode port (which may or may not be useful). The S5iix has electronic first curtain shutter, not in the SL3-S. I'm sure there are other differences I haven't picked up yet.

[LD_50]

1 hour ago, AndyAV said:

I have all three SL3, SL2-S and now SL3-S. What I can share now, as a former user of Sony Alpha series, as well as former Canon RF series, and also former Panasonic professional shooter, SL3-S punches well above Canon and Panasonic with the AF in iAF, AFC and AF-S. I was actually stunned to witness how accurate and prompt the SL3-S with the improved AF Ai over what was a hit and miss SL3 and even SL2-S AF. Now as it is, SL3-S is competing neck to neck with Sony Alpha (with GM lenses) on AF performance and I can totally trust it 100% for any sort of AF needs. Even when pitted against strong glare lights in extreme ISO in low light situation, SL3-S AF did not fail to impress.

You can check my video here on how crazily good the AF on SL3-S:

 

I don’t know if you’re attempting to drive traffic to your YouTube page with the “punches well above Canon” comment but there’s nothing in your video, nothing in any video on this camera or the S5ii, nothing in any review of this or the S5ii, nothing in the specs, nothing in the hardware or software that would support this. Unless you’re referring to some old poor performing Canon I can’t understand why you’d make the claim. The same likely goes for Panasonic, where at best I’d expect the SL3-S could match Panasonic’s best. Why claim otherwise?

Your video shows a few examples of shooting video and having the camera reacquire focus as you pan. That looks fine. It’s not bad, but also nothing class leading. Go pull up a video of an R1, R3, R5ii acquiring focus, and then tracking BIF, sports, etc. It’s not even comparable. 

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[Elliot Harper]

2 hours ago, AndyAV said:

I have all three SL3, SL2-S and now SL3-S. What I can share now, as a former user of Sony Alpha series, as well as former Canon RF series, and also former Panasonic professional shooter, SL3-S punches well above Canon and Panasonic with the AF in iAF, AFC and AF-S. I was actually stunned to witness how accurate and prompt the SL3-S with the improved AF Ai over what was a hit and miss SL3 and even SL2-S AF. Now as it is, SL3-S is competing neck to neck with Sony Alpha (with GM lenses) on AF performance and I can totally trust it 100% for any sort of AF needs. Even when pitted against strong glare lights in extreme ISO in low light situation, SL3-S AF did not fail to impress.

You can check my video here on how crazily good the AF on SL3-S:

 

After watching your video twice, I’m more convinced that SL3-S is not worth it.

[tom0511]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AndyAV:

I have all three SL3, SL2-S and now SL3-S. What I can share now, as a former user of Sony Alpha series, as well as former Canon RF series, and also former Panasonic professional shooter, SL3-S punches well above Canon and Panasonic with the AF in iAF, AFC and AF-S. I was actually stunned to witness how accurate and prompt the SL3-S with the improved AF Ai over what was a hit and miss SL3 and even SL2-S AF. Now as it is, SL3-S is competing neck to neck with Sony Alpha (with GM lenses) on AF performance and I can totally trust it 100% for any sort of AF needs. Even when pitted against strong glare lights in extreme ISO in low light situation, SL3-S AF did not fail to impress.

You can check my video here on how crazily good the AF on SL3-S:

 

Will the viewfinder of sl3-s stay clear when using c-af or will it blur like SL3/SL2-s?