Leica SL3-S: ‘More light’ – The Unbearable Lightness of Being

[tjphoto]

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It doesn't focus as well with APO lenses? They are the whole reason I want to shoot with the SL system. Disappointed.

[Olaf_ZG]

43 minutes ago, HPFM said:

My only and biggest problem will be to sell my SL2 (second body) for the Sl3-s in addition to my Sl3…. Prices are down so far that i fear i have to give it to the waste…sorry Leica😬😬

This is my “problem” as well. Over the last several months, both SL2 and SL2s devalued a LOT. I bought the 2s secondhand beginning 2023, and the 2 as a demo beginning 2024. I am afraid that trading in both, I still might need to add some cash. And though there are quite some benefits, I am not sure if those benefits are worth it for me, right now.

The both 2’s are great, and I don’t do video. No intention either. The tiltscreen is welcome, and the new AF would be handier with equine, but then, I managed till now, so will manage in the near future.

Without the steep devaluation I would have considered it. Now I don’t. Will wait for the 4s to come so I can buy a cheap 3s. Rather spend my money on a lens, but hey, they didn’t announce any today… (despite some rumors here on LUF)…

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, pf4eva said:

Different? Could you please provide any links to DR and S/N ration test for it? Everything indicates that those are same sensors. There might be some sample variations however.

There is supposedly some minor low light improvement brought about by the new processor on the SL3-S over the SL2-S. How much improvement I've not yet seen formally tested.

33 minutes ago, sebben said:

Can someone tell me if there is any thing substantial here that makes it better than the SL2-S beyond marketing gimmicks?

It seems like the only real thing is the that Autofocus is a bit improved and the ProRes codec?

PDAF is a big improvement over CDAF.

7 minutes ago, tjphoto said:

It doesn't focus as well with APO lenses? They are the whole reason I want to shoot with the SL system. Disappointed.

It will still focus faster/better with the Leica APO lenses than the SL2/SL2-S. But those lenses are not built for speed. They have heavy elements with slow AF motors. To get the most out of the PDAF of the SL3/SL3-S, you need to use the newest dual linear AF lenses like the Sigma/Leica 70-200 2.8, Sigma 50 1.2, Sigma 60-600, etc.

[Crem]

26 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

This is my “problem” as well. Over the last several months, both SL2 and SL2s devalued a LOT. I bought the 2s secondhand beginning 2023, and the 2 as a demo beginning 2024. I am afraid that trading in both, I still might need to add some cash. And though there are quite some benefits, I am not sure if those benefits are worth it for me, right now.

The both 2’s are great, and I don’t do video. No intention either. The tiltscreen is welcome, and the new AF would be handier with equine, but then, I managed till now, so will manage in the near future.

Without the steep devaluation I would have considered it. Now I don’t. Will wait for the 4s to come so I can buy a cheap 3s. Rather spend my money on a lens, but hey, they didn’t announce any today… (despite some rumors here on LUF)…

On a positive note I think there is a huge buying opportunity here for M lens owners wanting a 2nd body. I picked up a used SL2-S and only use it with M lenses. The experience is wonderful. I tried it with AF lenses and quickly went back to Sony. Especially with fast M lenses I find the SL2-S experience to be better than a digital M. Leica does best in areas where they have little to no competition and the M adapter is an example of that. It's so well integrated with the firmware lens database and it just works. It convinced me to get some of my vintage lenses 6 bit coded by DAG.

Edited January 16 by Crem

[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

I'm sure plenty of reviews by wrinkled old men are incoming to balance it out.

I’ll be there soon!

[helged]

26 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

There is supposedly some minor low light improvement brought about by the new processor on the SL3-S over the SL2-S. How much improvement I've not yet seen formally tested.

PDAF is a big improvement over CDAF.

It will still focus faster/better with the Leica APO lenses than the SL2/SL2-S. But those lenses are not built for speed. They have heavy elements with slow AF motors. To get the most out of the PDAF of the SL3/SL3-S, you need to use the newest dual linear AF lenses like the Sigma/Leica 70-200 2.8, Sigma 50 1.2, Sigma 60-600, etc.

Panasonic LUMIX S Series 100mm F2.8 MACRO focuses super-fast as well; and Panasonic LUMIX S Pro 50mm F1.4 is also quite fast-focussing (just to add Panasonic to the list...).

Edited January 16 by helged

[BernardC]

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35 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

This is my “problem” as well. Over the last several months, both SL2 and SL2s devalued a LOT.

That's always the case when brands sell-out old models. Sometimes you benefit and sometimes you don't. I got a great deal on my S-006 when the S-007 was already available, so I've been lucky in the past. Similarly, people buying an SL2-s this month are getting amazing value for their money.

[pf4eva]

1 hour ago, Smogg said:

Leica is too small a company to compete with industry giants, so they chose rebadging as a commercial strategy. This is quite normal if the financial results are satisfactory. But if they chose a strong manufacturer (Sigma) for lenses, they missed the mark a bit with cameras, choosing Panasonic, which is quite backward in terms of technology (it's a pity they didn't come to an agreement with Sony, it would have been a bomb camera). Leica is doing well in areas where there is no competition or minimal competition (M series and Q series). But there will be those who will buy the SL3/SL3-S if they are satisfied with the modest technologies it has (a gorgeous appearance and a user-friendly menu are very important factors for many). Therefore, constant comparisons in this forum with CaNiSo are pointless, they have different and practically non-intersecting sales markets.

It is not pointless to compare at all. They have SL601 back in days which had a lot of custom parts not found anywhere and in a lot of areas that camera was ahead of its time. So no, it is not always being the case to just rebrand internals and charge huge premium. 

[Eclectic Man]

1 hour ago, frankchn said:

Leica is in the luxury segment of photographic equipment and they don't have to compete on having the "best" specifications if you can sell your products in other ways (build, heritage, etc...).

Similarly, you don't see Hermes advertising the carrying capacity of their Kelly bags, or Rolls-Royce used to advertise their horsepower numbers as "enough".

I understand that a 'foreigner' was assessing whether to buy a Rolls Royce or some other luxury motor vehicle.  He asked Rolls Royce what horsepower the engine was.  The reply was one word: "Adequate".

As far as Leica is concerned they have the reputation for optically the best photographic lenses, and need camera bodies that can do justice by them.  My interest in teh Sl3-S is the Dynamic Range, low light performance, and I am intrigued by multi shot performance, particularly the hand-held option, but won't be buying one for a while, if at all, as my SL2 seems quite adequate at the moment.

[la1402]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

If all you want is the best spec sheet for your buck, then it's obvious where to spend money. The trouble is, there are some things which are difficult to spell out in numbers.....

Ah. I smell Magic and Glow around the corner 😉

[MRJohn]

Would be nice if it gave us noticeable more dynamic range at ISO 3200 or 6400 vs the SL2-S. Seems there is no 24M sensor out there which can do it = give us more? For the rest of the features, healthy evolution. For now I will stay put with the SL2-S and see what Panasonic comes up with in the next year or two. - I am surprised that they did not go for 8k video and an according MP sensor. I don't do video so it does not matter to me, but it seems like displays are either 4k or going toward 8k (whether this is needed or not). - Anyway, nice job Leica, looking forward to an M with built in EVF coming later this year 😉 ... maybe, maybe not

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Not for me but even so I’m struggling to see who this camera is for, unless you need the content authenticity. I’m usually pretty good at finding a cameras unique place in the market. Not this time.

Why would a video shooter choose this over a S5iiX?

Why would a stills shooter choose this over a SL3 (or incoming S1Rii)? File storage issues? Cost? There’s the S5ii if that’s a thing for you.

The SL3 works because it was the only 60MP body for L mount lenses. Not sure where the SL3-S fits into the line up. Happy to be convinced though.

Gordon

[jonoslack]

Hi Thomas @MediaFotografie - great write-up, I really enjoyed it and I thought you got to the heart of the camera really well.

all the very best

Jono

[MediaFotografie]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

Hi Thomas @MediaFotografie - great write-up, I really enjoyed it and I thought you got to the heart of the camera really well.

all the very best

Jono

Thank you Jono!

looking forward to your review of the new camera

 

thomas

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, tjphoto said:

It doesn't focus as well with APO lenses? They are the whole reason I want to shoot with the SL system. Disappointed.

In this case it is not the camera that is slower with the lens but the lens that is slower with the camera. 

[Paul K]

 

1 hour ago, frankchn said:

I agree re: Leica should not try to go down-market, but I am just comparing spec sheet to spec sheet, and here we do find that the Leica is 2x the price from a mainstream manufacturer. Whether that is justified is another question -- I personally think if Leica can charge this much, they should.

For instance, the SL3 and the A7RV shares the similar headline specifications (60 MP, 7-10 fps with AE/AF, big bright EVFs, dual card slots, articulating screens) and the A7RV is $3800 and the SL3 is $7000.

Sure Sony makes a $6500 A1II and a $6000 A9III, but those are not comparable cameras in terms of headline specifications. The A1II does 30 fps at 50 MP and the A9III does 120 fps at 24 MP with a global shutter. Neither the SL3 or SL3-S are in that range.

The UI interface and ergonomics are far better on Leica than Sony and a major reason I changed systems last year.

[ALScott]

28 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Not for me but even so I’m struggling to see who this camera is for, unless you need the content authenticity. I’m usually pretty good at finding a cameras unique place in the market. Not this time.

Why would a video shooter choose this over a S5iiX?

Why would a stills shooter choose this over a SL3 (or incoming S1Rii)? File storage issues? Cost? There’s the S5ii if that’s a thing for you.

The SL3 works because it was the only 60MP body for L mount lenses. Not sure where the SL3-S fits into the line up. Happy to be convinced though.

Gordon

I ordered it today.  It has improvements over the SL2-S no matter what they are or how they are judged by individuals, they are undeniably there.  I have an SL3, and love it, and would like any better AF over it so a different model, the SL3-S, fits that requirement.  Less than a year into Leica but I have never seen anything where they promise sports, BIF, etc but they do promise color and IQ which I think we can all agree they deliver on.  As many have said, if you want the other things maybe Leica isn't what you want or need.  By the way, Flash, speaking more in general here not to you as I know, or think, you agree.

1 minute ago, Paul K said:

 

The UI interface and ergonomics are far better on Leica than Sony and a major reason I changed systems last year.

THIS.  This is one huge overall reason I started with a Q3.  I had always had Canon and even my old DSLR's drove me a little nuts.  This is also why I would not wait on a Panasonic whatever or buy Sony, Nikon or Canon.  Just looking at the backs of those cameras gives me hives.  Plus I do not want to run two brands when I am shooting anything.

[Cronilux]

My wife is super happy about the release, cause it’s pretty disappointing and it won’t enter my house. 

[HPFM]

+ one👍… exeption: no order today-have to sell my SL2 before i get a SL3-s as a compagnon for my Sl3…😬

vor 38 Minuten schrieb ALScott:

I ordered it today.  It has improvements over the SL2-S no matter what they are or how they are judged by individuals, they are undeniably there.  I have an SL3, and love it, and would like any better AF over it so a different model, the SL3-S, fits that requirement.  Less than a year into Leica but I have never seen anything where they promise sports, BIF, etc but they do promise color and IQ which I think we can all agree they deliver on.  As many have said, if you want the other things maybe Leica isn't what you want or need.  By the way, Flash, speaking more in general here not to you as I know, or think, you agree.

THIS.  This is one huge overall reason I started with a Q3.  I had always had Canon and even my old DSLR's drove me a little nuts.  This is also why I would not wait on a Panasonic whatever or buy Sony, Nikon or Canon.  Just looking at the backs of those cameras gives me hives.  Plus I do not want to run two brands when I am shooting anything.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[la1402]

3 hours ago, frankchn said:

Leica is in the luxury segment of photographic equipment and they don't have to compete on having the "best" specifications if you can sell your products in other ways (build, heritage, etc...).

Similarly, you don't see Hermes advertising the carrying capacity of their Kelly bags, or Rolls-Royce used to advertise their horsepower numbers as "enough".

Not sure this is enough anymore. Leica and the whole luxury segment rode the wave of more of 10 years of increasing wealth globally, but those times are over. You can even get on a waiting list at an authorized dealer for a Nautilus from Patek today (no, i did not...). Customers will look more for value for money, even in this segment. Leica can always demand a premium, but it seems after entering the L2 alliance, Leica is satisfying themselves with copy pasting technology from mainstream suppliers in their SL line. Nothing against Sigma and Panasonic - but where is Leicas own ambition?