Goizueta Posted January 4 Share #1  Posted January 4 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone! I have a question that I would like to ask you. My leica M10r was stolen a few months ago. A misfortune that has been difficult for me to assume.😓 Now I want to buy another camera. At first I was looking for another m10R (second hand) because I was very happy with mine but I have the opportunity to buy a new m11 for 6000e.  That is a new m11 at the price of an m10R or a little more expensive (I have seen an m10R for 5500e in a very good condition). I was determined to buy the M11 but I had doubts when I read the reviews of the the camera. I can't stop reading freeze problems and people thinking about selling it to buy an M10 because it works better. I like all the new advantages of the m11 ( usb-c, battery life, lower weight…) but it is more important to me that the camera works well without any problem… What do you think? Thank you in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Hi Goizueta, Take a look here What to buy at same price? M11 or M10R?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 4 Share #2  Posted January 4 Personal opinion? M10 or variant without doubt. Yes, the M11 has more features and a "better" sensor at pixel-peeping level, but will those do anything for your photography? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseg Posted January 4 Share #3 Â Posted January 4 Sorry to hear about your old camera. What I like about the M11 over its predecessor is USB-C charging and downloading... lack of a baseplate to access the battery I see as a positive. Â The lighter weight of the M11 I see as a benefit during all day excursions. Â Improved battery life of the M11 also enhances use quality. Â App interface is also very good. Â Arguably, Leica will support the M11 parts that many years longer than the M10 looking years out. Â There are a lot of complaints about the quality of this and that on the M11... and maybe buying in the used market may enhance your odds of receiving a lemon. Â I have a newer M11 and have yet to experience any of the issues others have highlighted (knock on wood). Â It is proven complaints are 10X more likely to be posted than compliments. Â With all that said, if I had an M11 lemon, I would wish I had gotten an M10. Â If my M11 is flawless, I would be very happy I bought it over the M10. Â Many M11 owners are posting their issues have been all but eliminated with recent firmware updates. Â Good luck with the decision. Â I don't think there is a slam dunk easy answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goizueta Posted January 4 Author Share #4  Posted January 4 Thank you for the answers. What I find incredible is that such an expensive camera can have so many problems. It is crazy to ask about firmware issues of a 8000k camera…I never had any problem in my old mirrorless cameras…  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcusick Posted January 4 Share #5  Posted January 4 Why wouldn’t you buy an m11?  Firmware is sorted (at least for me), it’s lighter, more MP, battery lasts longer, slightly better dynamic range, USBc charging, no bottom late, electronic shutter etc. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahesh Posted January 4 Share #6  Posted January 4 5 hours ago, Goizueta said: Hi everyone! I have a question that I would like to ask you. My leica M10r was stolen a few months ago. A misfortune that has been difficult for me to assume.😓 Now I want to buy another camera. At first I was looking for another m10R (second hand) because I was very happy with mine but I have the opportunity to buy a new m11 for 6000e.  That is a new m11 at the price of an m10R or a little more expensive (I have seen an m10R for 5500e in a very good condition). I was determined to buy the M11 but I had doubts when I read the reviews of the the camera. I can't stop reading freeze problems and people thinking about selling it to buy an M10 because it works better. I like all the new advantages of the m11 ( usb-c, battery life, lower weight…) but it is more important to me that the camera works well without any problem… What do you think? Thank you in advance! You have answered your question - "it is more important to me that the camera works well without any problem" You were also happy with the M10-R. Why get something which might cause an issue, considering the history? Of course if you are happy with the positives and ok to take chances with possibly freezes then get an M11. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homo Faber Posted January 4 Share #7  Posted January 4 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had a M11-P for about a year. I sold it last December and bought a M10-R. And I sure don’t look back. The M11 has some features that make your life as a photographer easier (internal memory, better menues, better lcd screen, better wifi connectivity, better battery life, electronic shutter, saphire glass (M11-P), USB-C) but to my eye the M10-R provides more pleasing images (better colour rendering, no ugly magenta cast). And that brings me joy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goizueta Posted January 4 Author Share #8  Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, Mahesh said: You have answered your question - "it is more important to me that the camera works well without any problem" You were also happy with the M10-R. Why get something which might cause an issue, considering the history? Of course if you are happy with the positives and ok to take chances with possibly freezes then get an M11. I was happy with my m10R but when I bought it the M11 didn’t exist. M10R was the newest model of Leica M. Now my intention was to buy the newest model but I have doubts because of the freeze issues I’m reading at forums… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goizueta Posted January 4 Author Share #9  Posted January 4 40 minutes ago, rcusick said: Why wouldn’t you buy an m11?  Firmware is sorted (at least for me), it’s lighter, more MP, battery lasts longer, slightly better dynamic range, USBc charging, no bottom late, electronic shutter etc. I didn’t know that the firmware was sorted…😅 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goizueta Posted January 4 Author Share #10  Posted January 4 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Al Brown said: M11 slightly used sells as low as 6000 euros or less in EU. Very disturbing fact that tells a lot about the popularity of this digital M iteration. These attached prices include 20% tax so if you have an EU company you can even buy -20% on the price. Best specs on a digital M so far don't help much... Still sticking with my M10 variants. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!  Edited January 4 by Goizueta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 4 Share #11  Posted January 4 I think most of these gadgetry/freeze arguments are missing the point. There's a different look to each camera. M11 sharpness and Sony-like literalism was nagging at me. I had to get rid of the M11D because of the SSD failure and the loss of files it caused. I've let my M11P go at the same time although that one had periodic freezes "only". But what it has achieved unexpectedly is giving me back time with the M10R and M10M, which are convenient to take along as a compatible pair. I feel very much back at home with the M10R, with its quiet shutter, and puny battery of which I have at least five and am used to charging and taking along with me at least two. The lack of the internal memory brings back the card workflow which also ensures easiier recovery if needed. But then again I like classic Leicas and got M9-P and M-P 240 before and after the M11-P/D. It also teaches one a lesson that the latest and greatest is unnecessary and the best is an enemy of the good. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goizueta Posted January 4 Author Share #12  Posted January 4 I'm thinking that I prefer the m10R. I felt very comfortable with it and I really think that the only reason why I was thinking to buy the m11 was to have the most recent version of the M but its advantages don’t compensate me versus of the possible problems of feeeze and the color processing (Sony friendly) you comment on. Thank you all  for the comments!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted January 4 Share #13 Â Posted January 4 Colors from Sony cameras look different, also from other manufacturers (like the Sigma fp) using that sensor. Their 61 MP sensor - although aged meanwhile - still has one of the highest dynamic ranges. There is not much more, a sensor can do on the raw level. If Leica implements it's own bayer filter and it's own color processing, why do you blame Sony for you problems you see with the M11 colors? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseg Posted January 5 Share #14  Posted January 5 6 hours ago, Goizueta said: What I find incredible is that such an expensive camera can have so many problems.  I take it you don’t own a Ferrari? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 5 Share #15 Â Posted January 5 2 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said: Colors from Sony cameras look different, also from other manufacturers (like the Sigma fp) using that sensor. Their 61 MP sensor - although aged meanwhile - still has one of the highest dynamic ranges. There is not much more, a sensor can do on the raw level. If Leica implements it's own bayer filter and it's own color processing, why do you blame Sony for you problems you see with the M11 colors? It's admittedly a bit sloppy description of the colors that might, to some, feel like Sony, or Canikon, or iPhone output, i.e. too realistic and not dreamy enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceRH Posted January 5 Share #16 Â Posted January 5 I had the M10-R and loved it but after getting the M11-P, I have no regrets selling the M10-R. I love the USB C charging and much longer battery life. In over a year of shooting regularly with it, I have yet to have it freeze. My M11-P has been just as reliable as my M10-R was. Personally, I would get the newest tech you can afford unless there is a specific reason for wanting to stay with the M10-R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcusick Posted January 5 Share #17  Posted January 5 5 hours ago, Goizueta said: I didn’t know that the firmware was sorted…😅 I have no issues whatsoever and I use my camera a lot… maybe just lucky.  1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted January 5 Share #18  Posted January 5 Every digital M body has given me issues, M8, M9, M240, M10p, M10r, most are minor and slight inconveniences that switching off/on rectifies. The M10p and M10r have been the most reliable but occasionally hiccup. The M11 shutters close, open, close, open cycle has an odd feel unlike the silky smooth M10p and M10r. Leica bodies that contain electronics are more fragile than their Japanese competitors, powering off the camera before removing batteries or attaching flashes may keep the camera out of the repair shop. The last thing I want to do with a Leica body is attach a usb-c cord and charge it internally, something I don't hesitate to do with Nikon and Sony. Given the issues of the M11, Leica will be (or should be) giving special attention to a bug free M12. Can they do it? Skip the M11, shoot the M10r, wait for the M12, the last time Leica got over their skis (the M240) they removed features and improved the camera greatly.  2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted January 5 Share #19  Posted January 5 7 hours ago, setuporg said: It's admittedly a bit sloppy description of the colors that might, to some, feel like Sony, or Canikon, or iPhone output, i.e. too realistic and not dreamy enough. I have absolutely no problem with the colours from my M11 Mono🤪 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK100 Posted January 5 Share #20 Â Posted January 5 No issues at all with my M11. Any issues there may have been have been long since sorted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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