M9 as an investment? :D

[Steadimann]

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Hey all,

I started thinking recently that I should get M9 with replaced sensor for ocasional use and also store it as an investment while it's still available.. The ones with replaced sensor are expensive already, but being the much wanted with CCD sensor, what do you think? I have an in idea in general to collect M8, M9, M10 camera bodies to have full collection of Digital Ms from every generation.

Or should I just buy a new lens?

Let's chat!

[irenedp]

I wouldnt have one if I didn’t use it. 
 

sensors aren’t the only problem with old cameras. Motherboards too. There are some people who can repair one, and for the right money they can even print one. There’s already a cottage industry devoted to repairing old electronics. But not sure they (M9s) will become much more valuable than today. 

Original batteries are becoming scarce, too. And they are much better than the copies (at least the ones I got). 

[overexposed]

M9-P Black Paint, sure

[a.noctilux]

M9 as investment, not good idea I think there are far better ways.

Even as user M, so many reported problems, battery, sensor, etc.

As collector's view, why not ...

Myself, I can not decide to sell Monochrom which is M9 without Bayer filter.

Maybe better choice is silver chrome MM ?

Edited December 19, 2024 by a.noctilux

[LEGEND]

Leica M9 Monochrom ...     

Nikola

[Ray Vonn]

No, the camera's to be used.  Much better if it's in the hands of an appreciative user than sitting on a shelf unused as an "investment".  Life's too short.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Ray Vonn

[3D-Kraft.com]

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I think, you can expect an inflation-adjusted value stability (as long as it is in working condition), but you will propably not be able to earn extra money.

You can see that the used prices are higher for the M9 than for the M(240), indicating that the market is increasingly appreciating the special features (first M with digital full-frame sensor, last M with Kodak CCD sensor).

The battery supply also seems to be more relaxed than in the successor models. There are many 3rd party offers and at least some of them seem to work quite well. The battery is also so simple that (with the appropriate specialist knowledge) it should be possible to replace the lithium cells it contains.

But I don't see it as a long-term investment, as the probability that the electronics will eventually suffer an irreparable defect over a long period of time is very high. As long as it's just an electrolytic capacitor that's dying, you'll still be able to find a replacement and specialists can replace it. But things are worse for other components.

The M9 is fun and as long as you buy it with ID15/ID16 Sensor and can sell it while it's still working, you probably won't lose any more money. However, if the investment idea is your priority, then maybe it's better to invest in a rare and sought-after lens.

[Steadimann]

Interesting ideas, appreciate it. It's not that I'm expecting to this because I have an intention of earning money, rather than having a passion for Leica, photography and this would serve as a personal collection. I get the idea that digital cameras have limited life expectancy due to chips, etc, that is true...

[3D-Kraft.com]

If you only collect them, you miss the joy of their challenging usage and their here and then surprisingly good results.

For this I would highly recommend the M9 (more than any other M),

[T25UFO]

Investment?  M Edition 70 if you can get one!  If not, buy a new lens . . .

[spydrxx]

You might benefit from an understanding of what an investment is and how to differentiate it from a speculation. Cameras, in general, aren't investments....they may have an intrinsic value  which varies in time, but, except for very unusual models or ones associated with famous individuals, fail the usual tests of an investment. They pay no financial dividends, nor do they have a means of validating their value, disqualifying them as an investment. If you want to invest your money, look to traditional investments. Cameras are for taking pictures.

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Steadimann said:

...I started thinking recently that I should get M9 with replaced sensor for ocasional use and also store it as an investment...

As the financial institutions always have to say; "The Value of Inverstments can do Down as well as Up."...

The M9 was / is a fine camera but in the UK it's possible to buy an M9 - and even an M9 Monochrom(*) - with replaced sensor for under £2k so had anyone bought one in the last few years as an investment they would almost certainly be in the "Down" part of the above statement.

Exact production figures aren't available but from those numbers / years which are in the public domain it seems likely that there were between 200,000 and 250,000 M9 cameras - A Quarter of a Million! - made so it's hardly an item that could be described as being 'scarce' or 'hard-to-find'...

As has already been said; the Special / Limited / Numbered editions might be able to hold more of their value but even then it's a lottery.

They do produce nice files, though, so if you want to buy one to use it then that's a fine idea.

Philip.

* I did check just before I wrote that bit......😸......

Edited December 19, 2024 by pippy

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb pippy:

The M9 was / is a fine camera but in the UK it's possible to buy an M9 - and even an M9 Monochrom(*) - with replaced sensor for under £2k so had anyone bought one in the last few years as an investment they would almost certainly be in the "Down" part of the above statement.

Where did you see them for that price? On ebay(.co.uk) I currently only see the "normal" M9 between 3500 and 4000 £, when they have a replaced sensor. Models with unreplaced (corroding) sensor are around £2k.

vor 5 Minuten schrieb pippy:

Exact production figures aren't available but from those numbers / years which are in the public domain it seems likely that there were between 200,000 and 250,000 M9 cameras

Would be interesting to see, how many of them got the ID15/ID16 sensor replacement. For those I see rising prices since many months as long as they are also otherwise in good condition.

[T25UFO]

4 minutes ago, pippy said:

As the financial institutions always have to say; "The Value of Inverstments can do Down as well as Up."...

The M9 was / is a fine camera but in the UK it's possible to buy an M9 - and even an M9 Monochrom - with replaced sensor for under £2k so had anyone bought one in the last few years as an investment they would almost certainly be in the "Down" part of the above statement.

Exact production figures aren't available but from those numbers / years which are in the public domain it seems likely that there were between 200,000 and 250,000 M9 cameras - A Quarter of a Million! - made so it's hardly an item that could be described as being 'scarce' or 'hard-to-find'...

As has already been said; the Special / Limited / Numbered editions might be able to hold more of their value but even then it's a lottery.

They do produce nice files, though, so if you want to buy one to use it then that's a fine idea.

Philip.

As far as limited editions are concerned, I found one MA Titan set on eBay listed for about GBP 26,000.  That's a 50% increase on the original list price, but of course that doesn't mean it will sell at that price.  I guess the number of people looking to pay such a premium is pretty small.  The 70 year edition might be different given it's an anniversary product, but would still require someone with deep pockets who couldn't get an allocation and really wanted this camera.

[Steadimann]

So I guess I should just buy one and use it then 😀😀😀 sometimes I wish I had as M11 has really modern looking files. M9 combined with 35 steelrim reissue would be nice :))

[pgk]

1 hour ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

On ebay(.co.uk) I currently only see the "normal" M9 between 3500 and 4000 £, when they have a replaced sensor. Models with unreplaced (corroding) sensor are around £2k.

Ebay is not a good indicator of prices. There is a large discrepancy between asking prices and achieved prices. This goes for a lot of stuff on Ebay these days. I am watching stuff that has been on Ebay for many months because it is overpriced and I assume the sellers leave suff there in case they get lucky and someone actually pays over the odds. My hope is that eventually they will take a viable offer😀.

FWIW my M9s are not collectable and I paid way below even pippy's suggested prices for my last one (with a 6 month warranty from Leica).

I wouldn't invest in any electronic device, camera or otherwise, personally.

[pippy]

4 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Where did you see them for that price? On ebay(.co.uk) I currently only see the "normal" M9 between 3500 and 4000 £, when they have a replaced sensor. Models with unreplaced (corroding) sensor are around £2k...

Here's the Monochrom which is being advertised through a well-respected dealership;

https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/leica-m-monochrom/sku-2850635?kk=a4c629a-193df3b372c-acbc0&kgclid=CjwKCAiApY-7BhBjEiwAQMrrEQHBpfUU_mTrmgxNYGj4ruCPJQ23psUB-pPFHYKmLcF33dYufEozihoCnwcQAvD_BwE&utm_source=kelkoouk&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=kelkooclick&utm_source_platform=KelkooGroup&utm_term=Leica+Used+Leica+M+Monochrom

Although the Ad. doesn't specify the new sensor it is understood that no dealership will ever offer a non-upgraded body for sale with a guarantee - which this example has - due to the impossibility of it being able to be fixed under said guarantee.

The 'regular' M9 which I saw this morning at a similar UK dealership has, having just checked, now been taken down (probably sold?) but these cameras regularly come on to the market for around the £2k mark. When I traded-in my M9-P / Black Paint the dealership put it on sale for £2,100 and it sold within two days.

I don't consider eBay prices to be an accurate reflection of what should be asked / paid for this sort of stuff but even there prices aren't always silly. Having literally spent 20 seconds on a 'search' here's a Steel Grey M9 with replaced cover glass for £2,150;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-M9-Steel-Grey-18MP-Full-Frame-Digital-Camera-Kodak-CCD-No-Corrosion-3-Batt-/276664544463?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338749375&toolid=20006&_ul=GB&customid=CjwKCAiApY-7BhBjEiwAQMrrES4w2PnKMZPXq26iQRDIrJDcMo1LQ4L1midqdyQ-ihNrJeZ14tk3thoCNhsQAvD_BwE|0AAAAADihhqVy9-grVnojc_C6W3Q6Pki3I|Cj4KCAiAgoq7BhB_Ei4AOWEkQQQ0be-Jn9iPls2-vMEIouMJdULMHYruV9b_C6GjdI29u4c-M5MrxeXrGgJFbA&gclid=CjwKCAiApY-7BhBjEiwAQMrrES4w2PnKMZPXq26iQRDIrJDcMo1LQ4L1midqdyQ-ihNrJeZ14tk3thoCNhsQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADihhqVy9-grVnojc_C6W3Q6Pki3I&wbraid=Cj4KCAiAgoq7BhB_Ei4AOWEkQQQ0be-Jn9iPls2-vMEIouMJdULMHYruV9b_C6GjdI29u4c-M5MrxeXrGgJFbA&gad_source=1

Now; I know (through my own experience with sensor-cover-glass replacement for the aforementioned M9-P) that "replaced cover-glass" doesn't specify that the new replacement glass was with another v1 or a v2 but, honestly, M9 cameras here aren't too difficult to find for decent prices.

As always my advice would be to buy through a dealership as going down that route means that - unless specified otherwise - the camera will have the v2 sensor cover-glass.

Philip.

Edited December 19, 2024 by pippy

[pedaes]

11 minutes ago, pippy said:

eBay prices to be an accurate reflection of what should be asked /

Worth clicking the "Sold" items box for more meaningful figures.

[pippy]

4 hours ago, T25UFO said:

As far as limited editions are concerned, I found one MA Titan set on eBay listed for about GBP 26,000.  That's a 50% increase on the original list price, but of course that doesn't mean it will sell at that price...

It would be interesting to see how much a complete Mint-in-Box Hermès M9 set could fetch. It would also be interesting to know whether such a camera had received the v2 cover-glass at any stage in its life...

I'm rarely all that curious about 'the fancy stuff' but I will happily admit that I found the little clip showing how the set was assembled to be rather wonderful;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAfSfnykXfo&t=4s

Personally? I consider myself to have been incredibly fortunate in having been able to acquire, on the 'Used Market', a Silver-Chrome M Monochrom with factory-applied 'Boysenberry Leather' covering. 'Pics on Request!'.....😸......

Philip.

Edited December 19, 2024 by pippy

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[jaapv]

Buy gold bars. Or Bitcoin.