Why I love and hate the Leica M

[Altair]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, otto.f said:

🤨

Why the odd look?

 

I am dead serious, I have owned or tested virtually every "high end" camera and nothing has ever consistently left me as speechless as the M11 with a Noctilux does. The combination of extreme seperation, vivid yet life like colours, just right sharpness, and smooth transition to a background that has a gorgeous bokeh is what i would describe as the reason....but you don't think about those things....your mind just recognises the image as special and beutifull. Nothing like 0.95 and M11 when it.comes to magical pictures man.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[otto.f]

1 hour ago, Altair said:

Why the odd look?

 

I am dead serious, I have owned or tested virtually every "high end" camera and nothing has ever consistently left me as speechless as the M11 with a Noctilux does. The combination of extreme seperation, vivid yet life like colours, just right sharpness, and smooth transition to a background that has a gorgeous bokeh is what i would describe as the reason....but you don't think about those things....your mind just recognises the image as special and beutifull. Nothing like 0.95 and M11 when it.comes to magical pictures man.

I just don't think that the camera is such a big variable in the list of things that are responsible for magic in an image. An SL can do it at least as good with a Noctilux. Photographer, lens and the situation/scene/subject encountered are the most decisive IMO.

[jaapv]

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

2 hours ago, Altair said:

Thanks for the tip. If I do get the 75 it's definitely going to be used. I could get a used M11M and the 75 for the price of 75 retail! That's shocking!

 

I am putting off that purchase for a year though. I went back to shooting with my 50 0.95 yesterday and it's still wowing me, the honeymoon phase is far from over. I do love the way 75 renders and would live to have both at some time, but not until I have mastered the 50, too much of a good thing could be counter productive.

 

I am very excited to get the 50 Summilux in 2 weeks. What a perfectly balanced lens. It kind of blew my mind how every aspect was perfectly balanced. Leica really do have the best optics. However says the camer doesn't matter has not shot with a Leica M and Leica glass. My passion to go out and shoot has been energised by a factor of 10.

 

I had a major project in mind, my retirement from work and start working on hobbies projects ( build a man cave, build a walk in humidor, rebuild a classic car by hand, and do a coffee table photography book) includes a book that covers the finest hand made items from across the globe. That's the main project, since I picked up my M, which was initially just for fun and exploration, I now have started work on a second project that will also include travel. The concept is to photograph the same major city twice, once the way it is portrayed in media, and once the real city the way the locals see it. The 35mm APO for the perfect media shot, the 35 steel rim reissue for the grundgy real world shot. Captions from city officials and captions from citizens. Would require quite a bit of research and planning but the result should be a genuinely original and interesting coffee table book.

 

I am not a professional photographer by any means, but have been a hobbyist for about 25 years now. I really hope I can pull this off. Will be a fun learning experience either way. I might do my home town and our products first and post here for critique and advice soon. I very much appreciate and respect the wonderful constructive advice I have received so far.

 

Regarding the Z9, I had mentioned I might give that up, the longer I think about it the more I lean towards that decision. I do love Nikon, and still cherish my FM2 and 50 1.4/ 85 1.8 but Leica and Hasselblad are taking over. Getting rid of the Z9 and moving to a SL3 would also mean to give up wildlife ( no associated project for sure, but a for fun aspect of photography l) 

 

Another option i was contemplating today was to go with Sony. The Sony could be used effectively with the Leica glass as the cameras are fairly compact, and they have wildlife capabilities almost on par with Nikon. From a passion perspective, I don't want my camera to be made by a stereo manufacturer and would preffer Nikon, and the SL3 would be a better fit to the Leica glass.....

 

I do apologise for the long post, thinking out loud here. Considering I am embarking on new projects, focusing on what is crucial and letting go of the for fun wildlife and macro aspects of photography until I am done. It's most likely X2D, M11P, SL3.

 

I answered my own question while writing the post.

Why would you give up wildlife? I have been doing that on Leica since 1988. The M240 with EVF and Vario-Elmar 105-280 R and 1.4 + 2x Apo extenders  did an an impeccable job. 

Edited December 23, 2024 by jaapv

[Altair]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Why would you give up wildlife? I have been doing that on Leica since 1988. The M240 with EVF and Vario-Elmar 105-280 R and 1.4 + 2x Apo extenders  did an an impeccable job. 

If course you could technically do wildlife on the SL system but I doubt i would be able to produce images with the type of impact and pull that I do on my Nikon gear. The thing about the 70-200 and 400 Nikkor lenses in that they are a fixed 2.8 so very decent seperation and as far as wildlife lenses are concerned the sharpness and colours are top notch. Seperating a lion in South African jungles with glorious colours during sunrise produces a truly great picture where both the subject, scene, and quality of the image is something that can be set apart from the millions of wildlife images out there.

 

A Leica telephoto with an extender would not come close to providing the seperation I find necessary. This comes down to what do you want to do with the camera, if it's simply documenting a scene then yes the Leica setup you had mentioned would do a great job, but it wouldn't create the type of artistic photo I always look for.

 

Also, Japanese cameras, Nikon Canon and Sony etc, have far superior AF and detection capabilities. It's truly remarkable how fast my Z9 can detect, lock on, and track a subject. Leicas are slow by design and purpose, could be great for a portrait of a baboon at a zoo, but wouldn't work for a fast moving cheetah in Kenya or a racing camel in Saudi.

 

That said, I am curious about the 90-280 SL lens. I do wonder if it's sharpness and Leica look optics could result in a different but equally impactful photo.

[jaapv]

Not an SL , although I use it nowadays with the appropriate Sigma lenses but my older work was all done with M cameras and V and R mount lenses up until 2019. I used Canon for a couple of years but saw very little if any advantage. There is very little need for AF doing wildlife. In fact on my SL I often focus manually. BTW the Sigma 70-200 is as good as the Leica 90-280. And 2.8. The remark about separation is beside the reality I fear. At the focal lengths and distances involved DOF is exceedingly narrow at all reasonable apertures. 

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Altair said:

I am dead serious, I have owned or tested virtually every "high end" camera and nothing has ever consistently left me as speechless as the M11 with a Noctilux does. The combination of extreme seperation, vivid yet life like colours, just right sharpness, and smooth transition to a background that has a gorgeous bokeh is what i would describe as the reason....but you don't think about those things....your mind just recognises the image as special and beutifull. Nothing like 0.95 and M11 when it.comes to magical pictures man.

Perhaps you should visit more art dealers, galleries, museums, art fairs, etc.  Funny how there are so many wonderful prints throughout photo history from photographers pre-dating an M11 or current Noctilux.  

Jeff

[lct]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

6 hours ago, otto.f said:

🤨

+1 😄

[Altair]

26 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Not an SL , although I use it nowadays with the appropriate Sigma lenses but my older work was all done with M cameras and V and R mount lenses up until 2019. I used Canon for a couple of years but saw very little if any advantage. There is very little need for AF doing wildlife. In fact on my SL I often focus manually. BTW the Sigma 70-200 is as good as the Leica 90-280. And 2.8. The remark about separation is beside the reality I fear. At the focal lengths and distances involved DOF is exceedingly narrow at all reasonable apertures. 

It all depends on the type of pictures you would want to produce. As far as seperation is concerned, I have used the two mentioned Nikkor lenses to great extent previously. I will figure out a way to post here. But yes seperation at 2.8 on a 400mm lens is absolutely a game changer.

I recommend checking out the images in Nikons media website. The first picture shows the seperation effect I am referring to:

 

https://www.nikonusa.com/p/nikkor-z-400mm-f28-tc-vr-s/20111/overview

 

Again, not saying this is what makes for a good wildlife photo and only this, of course not. But for me personally, I look for a few things in a good photo that I try to produce, mainly pleasing composition first, seperation to highlight the subject, string colours on subject, smooth transition to background, and an artistic paintbrush like bokeh. 

 

That's what I like to see, that's what I try to produce, hence my addiction to fast zooms and even better if I can get away with primes. On the Z9, I would only use the Plena at 135 1.8, the 70-200 2.8, and the 400 2.8 ( don't have the latter yet, only rented so far...)

[Altair]

15 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Perhaps you should visit more art dealers, galleries, museums, art fairs, etc.  Funny how there are so many wonderful prints throughout photo history from photographers pre-dating an M11 or current Noctilux.  

Jeff

You are refering to great photographers who can tell a story through a photo.

 

I am a hobbyist who wants to do a couple of projects and likes his new camera. 

Seriousely, in terms of magic, no camera produces it as seamlessly as the M11 and Noctilux.

[pippy]

4 minutes ago, Altair said:

...Seriousely, in terms of magic, no camera produces it as seamlessly as the M11 and Noctilux...

It is unhelpful to state personal opinions as if they are facts.

Philip.

[Altair]

1 minute ago, pippy said:

It is unhelpful to state personal opinions as if they are facts.

Philip.

I think you are taking my statement too seriously friend. It genuinely is my opinion though.

 

That said, I do apologise if I had annoyed you somehow with my statement. Best of luck to you and do enjoy whatever type of photography you like.

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, Altair said:

You are refering to great photographers who can tell a story through a photo.

 

I am a hobbyist who wants to do a couple of projects and likes his new camera. 

Seriousely, in terms of magic, no camera produces it as seamlessly as the M11 and Noctilux.

I sense trolling. Great photographers tell stories; the rest need an M11, a Noctilux and great bokeh. 🤪

But in the slim chance you’re being serious, you’re obviously missing out on superb work from countless photo enthusiasts, worldwide. Exhibitions, and books, abound. 

Jeff
 

 

[pippy]

58 minutes ago, Altair said:

...That said, I do apologise if I had annoyed you somehow with my statement...

No offence taken whatsoever; I assure you.

We all have favourites and what I consider to be the best M-body & lens combination for my own snapping most certainly wouldn't be the #1 choice for the vast majority of photographers. I trust that you enjoy yourself with the stuff you prefer to use as much as I do with mine.

Philip.

Edited December 23, 2024 by pippy

[Markey]

I`m no sure what this thread is about other than somebody has bought some new gear and likes it.

I think that we`ve all been through that phase .

You have two choices : stop right there or rinse and repeat.

[T25UFO]

7 minutes ago, Markey said:

I`m no sure what this thread is about other than somebody has bought some new gear and likes it.

I think that we`ve all been through that phase .

You have two choices : stop right there or rinse and repeat.

Completely agree - some of the comments here are bordering on judgemental.  This forum is generally a happy and helpful place.  There is the inevitable grumpy old person - I was going to say 'men' but that would be unfair because some refuse to disclose their gender.  

All I see is someone who has enjoyed photography for many years and maybe has a little more disposable income on approaching retirement.  He / she has just discovered that rangefinder photography, coupled with the amazing glass that Leica produce, has brought an added dimension to the hobby.  So what's wrong with buying the latest camera and the best Noctilux lens?

Let's give @Altair a break and some encouragement.  He only joined the forum a month ago - I've been using the M rangefinder and a Noctilux in one form or another since the mid 1970's and I still haven't fully mastered shooting wide open 🙂

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, T25UFO said:

So what's wrong with buying the latest camera and the best Noctilux lens?

Because I want the Noctilux 75, but can't justify it!😏

[T25UFO]

53 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Because I want the Noctilux 75, but can't justify it!😏

Now that I do agree with!  

Talking of expensive equipment, I've been allocated an M Edition 70 but just found out that my expected end of year dividend won't be paid.  What to do?  I'm not a collector and would buy to use, but it's a very big ticket item.

[pippy]

1 minute ago, T25UFO said:

..I've been allocated an M Edition 70 but just found out that my expected end of year dividend won't be paid.  What to do?  I'm not a collector and would buy to use, but it's a very big ticket item.

Do you still have both of your kidneys?......

Philip.

Edited December 23, 2024 by pippy

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[T25UFO]

20 minutes ago, pippy said:

Do you still have both of your kidneys?......

Philip.

How I managed to get the allocation is an interesting story, not to repeat here, but will share on private message.  Doesn't involve, bribery, corruption or a kidney transplant.

[Altair]

I really don't want to spend any more time discussing negative replies, I actually came here to these forums after being run off Reddit for posting a thread celebrating my long awaited acquisition of some nice Leica gear. Obviously there are mixed reasons for these replies, some are based on genuine belief that the camera doesn't matter and that mindset has to be expressed, others are based over some pretty ugly material jealousy. I actually recieved a death threat on Reddit and many truly ugly replies and insults. That is a risk I suppose when interacting with people on the Internet. I'm the other hand there are a handful of people who enjoy being helpful and others who are happy for someone who is happy. Depends on what kind of person you are.

 

I am not going to comment on this aspect of some of the replies again, and I certainly don't feel a need to justify my expenditure to strangers. I am very thankful for genuine advice and constructive discussions though 🙏 

 

On the subject of cameras lenses and gear in general, let there be no mistake, I enjoy the hardware for what it is as much as I enjoy the results. A major attractor to Leica was the craftsmanship and build quality. I definitely pick up my Leica M more often than I would my Nikon or even my Hassleblad for that reason just as much as I do for the possibility of taking great pictures. Portability , quality of build and materials, and image quality....the three elements that attract me to Leica. 

 

Ad I am writing this final reply to these type of comments, I remember two gentlemen I met recently in Abu Dhabi, one was a collectors first and a hobbyist second, the other was purely a collectors. Never shoots his cameras, keeps them on display at his home. Power to them, it's what makes them happy. Who am I to say that doesn't make sense.