M11 frame line selection

[vivizen]

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Hi,

I recently went from an M2 to an M11, as a replacement to my non-Leica digital camera. However, I'm very confused/puzzled by the M11 frame lines: they don't change when I change from a 28mm lens to a 50mm, nor can I manually change them with the frame line selector. Is this camera defective, or am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks.

[jankap]

You have seen this information in the user manual? There are 3 windows offered for 6 focal lengths. The lenses must be coded, no manual choice is possible.

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[vivizen]

On the english manual (page 92), here's what is said:

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Which leads me to believe that the frame line selector lever ("image field selector") can be manually actuated to get the desired frame line (just as in an analog M). (Could you please point me to what page on the german manual the above snippet is from?)

I can also see that as the 28mm elmarit is screwed on, the frame line selector lever is moved mechanically, even with the camera off, just as in an analog M. But this doesn't seem to happen for my dual range 50 summicron, which is the confusion.

 

[lct]

M lenses don't need to be 6-bit coded for any M camera to show relevant framelines, including the M11. When you put a 28mm lens on your M11, it should bring up 28/90 framelines and a 50mm lens, 50/75 ones. If it doesn't, you may wish to check how framelines are changing with the field selector (14).

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Edited November 28, 2024 by lct

[vivizen]

That’s what I would’ve thought too! On my M11, moving the frame line selector doesn’t change the frame lines in the viewfinder at all. Is it safe to conclude this is a defect?

[lct]

It is a defect i fear, unless you expect framelines to appear on the LCD or the EVF.

[jankap]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb lct:

M lenses don't need to be 6-bit coded for any M camera to show relevant framelines, including the M11. When you put a 28mm lens on your M11, it should bring up 28/90 framelines and a 50mm lens, 50/75 ones. If it doesn't, you may wish to check how framelines are changing with the field selector (14).
 

You are right. The 6-bit code (M8 of 2006)has nothing to do with the framelines. The frameline switch uses a pure mechanical system (M3 of 1954) in the mounts of lens and camera.

Edited November 28, 2024 by jankap

[jdlaing]

Check and see if the lever in the camera is stuck. Improperly mounting a lens can cause this.

[vivizen]

The internal and external lever both move; in fact the external lever moves visibly as the lens is mounted. Yet, the frame lines don’t switch. This must mean the frame projection mask (or something related, internal to the mechanism) is stuck or disconnected. Anyway, it’s off for service now.

[Xavi]

A very silly question.... I understand that the frame lines are just informative, right?

It doesn't work to make a cut, right?

Frame lines
28mm we see 28mm and 90mm
35mm we see 35mm and 135mm
50mm we see 50mm and 75mm
18mm we see 18mm and ??

[pedaes]

15 minutes ago, Xavi said:

are just informative, right?

No, they are accurate if you take trouble to learn as per the Manuel. It explains importance of inner and outer lines of the frame outline,

What does "work to make a cut mean"? Cut is what?

[jaapv]

On 11/28/2024 at 8:50 PM, jankap said:

You are right. The 6-bit code (M8 of 2006)has nothing to do with the framelines. The frameline switch uses a pure mechanical system (M3 of 1954) in the mounts of lens and camera.

Yes and no; if the mechanical frameline selector does not match the 6-bit code, the camera will not apply a lens profile - this coupling is needed to accommodate the MATE. 

[jaapv]

31 minutes ago, Xavi said:

A very silly question.... I understand that the frame lines are just informative, right?

It doesn't work to make a cut, right?

Frame lines
28mm we see 28mm and 90mm
35mm we see 35mm and 135mm
50mm we see 50mm and 75mm
18mm we see 18mm and ??

There are no 18 mm framelines. Use an optical viewfinder or the EVF.

[Xavi]

40 minutes ago, pedaes said:

No, they are accurate if you take trouble to learn as per the Manuel. It explains importance of inner and outer lines of the frame outline,

What does "work to make a cut mean"? Cut is what?

Thanks 

I meant to zoom in on the image to crop like Q3 does

[pedaes]

26 minutes ago, Xavi said:

I meant to zoom in on the image to crop like Q3 does

Well you can use the frame lever to see the area covered by any of the framelines available, and do your cropping in post production (which will use part of the sensor area as the Q3 does) or on the enlarger baseboard for film. You can of course change lenses on a M.

With the greatest respect, there seems to be a lot of people buying M bodies and not understanding the basic concept and wanting it to be something it is not - it is a rangefinder camera and will hopefully always remain such. Other options are readily available. 

Edited December 3, 2024 by pedaes

[lct]

AFAIK moving the field selector does not change anything to the 6-bit code or the way the camera reads it. For instance, if the lens is coded as a 35mm lens, it will be recognized as such by the camera, whatever position the field selector may have, or am i missing something?

[Xavi]

El 3/12/2024 a las 21:40, pedaes dijo:

 

Con el mayor respeto, parece que hay mucha gente comprando cuerpos M y no entienden el concepto básico y quieren que sea algo que no es: es una cámara telémetro y espero que siempre lo siga siendo. Otras opciones están fácilmente disponibles.

It is clear from this that you answer me that either my English is too poor to explain myself or I have done it terribly.

[lct]

The frame lines do not crop anything because the OVF is not an EVF. When using the OVF you don't view through the lens but outside of it. Easy to use the screen or an EVF to crop if you wish so. Main menu page 3, Digital Zoom > 1.3x or 1.8x. Hope this helps.

Edited December 5, 2024 by lct

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, lct said:

EVF to crop

But the image on the sensor will not be cropped. Dosn't the digital zoom just give a crop view on the EVF as a aid to focus etc.? I must be missing something fundamental here so I will bow out. 

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[lct]

The jpeg file is cropped, not the dng.