Investment Leica

[lmans]

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I posed this question to myself and a few friends 5 years back or so.....is Leica a solid investment? ...This is what I have come up with.

NO on a digital Leica camera due to a shelf life. Yes, I know, all cameras have a shelf life, analog or digital but I know some of my digital cameras from the 1990's and late 80's are hurting in their electronics, so as a long term investment which one can pass down to kids....probably not, unless it is a rare digital model that has limited production numbers.

Analog...yes. I have seen the price of my current crop of analogs go up (as Frankly the digitals are too), especially the Barnack's Model 1 and some of the other Barnack's. They continue to 'work' and have the model and year to support the price increase. As I said, the digitals are going up too, but what happens when they are not working anymore? Price drops or stills remains? 

Lens....yes....a solid investment I would say as unless you store them in a wet climate and mold develops etc....they are always going to be there. 

So if you had extra money, would you invest in a Leica lens or camera now and if so, which one? 

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[John in Nassau]

Would tend to agree with your points.  Digital cameras certainly not, lens probably; particularly the better performing lenses.  film bodies - certainly vintage bodies, modern bodies probably just an inflation hedge.  not sure any of this stuff rises to investment category/grade unless you are very lucky. Folks will try of course and I suspect enough will be successful to keep it going. 
 

John

 

[lct]

To be an investment, camera gear would have to sell for more than what i paid for them, including inflation, which will never happen i fear, except for rare items one can find in auctions.

[jdlaing]

They are tools. Not monetary investments. If you want a return on an investment there is only one avenue that never decreases. Diamonds.

[spydrxx]

I'd consider purchase, but never as an investment.

[erl]

Investing implies a future. I'm not sure that I have one any more.

In my 20's, I thought about investments, but now in my 80's, I just think about how to maximise 'now!'

[Leicalook]

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Technical equipment. As an investment? Never.

[erl]

32 minutes ago, Leicalook said:

Technical equipment. As an investment? Never.

Actually, for about 40/50 years I changed my Hasseleblad gear about every 10 years after earning a living from it all the time. Generally sold for more than I paid. Would have been my superannuation if Digital had not happened. So now I still have the last iteration, and am enjoying it.

[Leicalook]

@erl

Just talking about my point of view. Some (not many) decades younger...

Wish you all the best for the next 80 years 🙃

[250swb]

I wouldn't write anything off just because its 'digital' after all look at the prices and nostalgia surrounding old computers like the Commodore 64, it just takes time for that generation to become nostalgic. But they have to be cultural emblems and I'm not sure Leica is leading the way given they are often behind the times and more people will have nostalgia for old Canon or Nikon digital cameras. I recently rescued my old 3mp Nikon Coolpix 990 from my brothers garage after being floored by the prices they are going for now, but it was a design classic (and mine still works!). So maybe the M9 will fit a similar niche for Leica but everything else since then hasn't got 'classic' written on it.

For film my MP is an exception to a rule I never follow, which is buying for investment. It cost £1800 new in 2003 and would fetch more than that now, but I never expected it. Even the variants on the M body don't fetch much more (if anything) than the bog standard versions and only rare items stand out, but do they have any increase in value left in them after recent collector hysteria, I doubt it?

[Jeff S]

12 hours ago, jdlaing said:

If you want a return on an investment there is only one avenue that never decreases. Diamonds.

Not for any given time period, e.g., last year..

According to recent data, the value of diamonds has significantly decreased over the past 12 months, with natural diamond prices falling by around 20-30% from their peak, primarily due to the rising popularity of lab-grown diamonds which have seen even steeper price declines; this drop is attributed to factors like decreased demand post-pandemic and increased availability of lab-grown options
 

Meanwhile, my stock/bond portfolio gained 25+% over a similar time frame.
 

Camera gear for investment? Not advisable, unless one invests for personal pleasure, not monetary gain.

Jeff

[TomB_tx]

Diamond prices have been held high by the main suppliers limiting the supply they release. Hmmm... perhaps like Leica.

[jdlaing]

32 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Not for any given time period, e.g., last year..

According to recent data, the value of diamonds has significantly decreased over the past 12 months, with natural diamond prices falling by around 20-30% from their peak, primarily due to the rising popularity of lab-grown diamonds which have seen even steeper price declines; this drop is attributed to factors like decreased demand post-pandemic and increased availability of lab-grown options
 

Meanwhile, my stock/bond portfolio gained 25+% over a similar time frame.
 

Camera gear for investment? Not advisable, unless one invests for personal pleasure, not monetary gain.

Jeff

Investment grade diamonds. Not the average jewelry stuff. 

[lmans]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

I wouldn't write anything off just because its 'digital' after all look at the prices and nostalgia surrounding old computers like the Commodore 64, it just takes time for that generation to become nostalgic. But they have to be cultural emblems and I'm not sure Leica is leading the way given they are often behind the times and more people will have nostalgia for old Canon or Nikon digital cameras. I recently rescued my old 3mp Nikon Coolpix 990 from my brothers garage after being floored by the prices they are going for now, but it was a design classic (and mine still works!). So maybe the M9 will fit a similar niche for Leica but everything else since then hasn't got 'classic' written on it.

 

I think you have a point....the masses have to have some nostalgia connected to whatever it is and Leica, as a brand....while many know of it, don't have the masses / numbers into that brand like Canon or Nikon and childhood memories, sort of speaking (whenever their childhood might occur in their lives!). 

Edited November 16, 2024 by lmans

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Investment grade diamonds. Not the average jewelry stuff. 

Sure, but still subject to risks, including market volatility, and potential liquidity issues.  Like any investment, requires expertise, critically so here.

Jeff

[willeica]

17 hours ago, lmans said:

I posed this question to myself and a few friends 5 years back or so.....is Leica a solid investment? ...This is what I have come up with.

NO on a digital Leica camera due to a shelf life. Yes, I know, all cameras have a shelf life, analog or digital but I know some of my digital cameras from the 1990's and late 80's are hurting in their electronics, so as a long term investment which one can pass down to kids....probably not, unless it is a rare digital model that has limited production numbers.

Analog...yes. I have seen the price of my current crop of analogs go up (as Frankly the digitals are too), especially the Barnack's Model 1 and some of the other Barnack's. They continue to 'work' and have the model and year to support the price increase. As I said, the digitals are going up too, but what happens when they are not working anymore? Price drops or stills remains? 

Lens....yes....a solid investment I would say as unless you store them in a wet climate and mold develops etc....they are always going to be there. 

So if you had extra money, would you invest in a Leica lens or camera now and if so, which one? 

I own about 50-60 early and vintage/classic Leicas, which I bought as a collector, but I have never sold one. I never bought any of them as an investment, but I know that, in most cases, I could probably sell them for at least as much as I paid for them and, in many cases, for a lot more. Investment has never been a motivation for me in collecting cameras and I have a lot more than Leicas in my collection. Some of my 19th Century brass lenses are now worth quite a bit more than I paid or them. 

As for modern digital cameras, they are like new cars and depreciate as soon as you drive away with them. It is a feature of the 'latest and greatest world' that there is nothing so out off date as last year's model. As some have said above, they are but tools and should be treated as such. There is a nascent market for early digital cameras, but it is not yet full developed. 

I presume that you are familiar with this site:

https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/

William 

 

[lmans]

23 hours ago, willeica said:

I own about 50-60 early and vintage/classic Leicas, which I bought as a collector, but I have never sold one. I never bought any of them as an investment, but I know that, in most cases, I could probably sell them for at least as much as I paid for them and, in many cases, for a lot more. Investment has never been a motivation for me in collecting cameras and I have a lot more than Leicas in my collection. Some of my 19th Century brass lenses are now worth quite a bit more than I paid or them. 

As for modern digital cameras, they are like new cars and depreciate as soon as you drive away with them. It is a feature of the 'latest and greatest world' that there is nothing so out off date as last year's model. As some have said above, they are but tools and should be treated as such. There is a nascent market for early digital cameras, but it is not yet full developed. 

I presume that you are familiar with this site:

https://collectiblend.com/Cameras/

William 

 

I have seen that site and lost it, so thanks for reminding me of it.  Now the question is with those 50-60 cameras....what becomes of them? Your kids or inheritors will stumble across those after you have passed and will say one of two things....(1)...wow, awesome....can you believe this....or (2) what do we do with all this stuff? Think the second hand store down the road wants em?   ha! Good luck .... 

[lct]

I have a couple young photogs among my heirs. They will keep a good memory of me when using my old gear hopefully.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Anbaric]

The market value of my M6 roughly tripled in a relatively short space of time, after remaining pretty static for several years. The value of my IIIa, on the other hand, probably hasn't kept up with inflation. Predictions are hard, especially about the future. But if you want the value of your investment camera to rise, your best bet is probably to become an influencer and shamelessly hype it on social media.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Anbaric

[willeica]

15 hours ago, lmans said:

I have seen that site and lost it, so thanks for reminding me of it.  Now the question is with those 50-60 cameras....what becomes of them? Your kids or inheritors will stumble across those after you have passed and will say one of two things....(1)...wow, awesome....can you believe this....or (2) what do we do with all this stuff? Think the second hand store down the road wants em?   ha! Good luck .... 

What happens to them will be my and my family's business, but the advice I would give them would be to contact someone from a list of trusted expert dealers, which I will provide. The object would be to dispose of them over time and to get some money back, not necessarily to realise full market value. My family ethos is not one that is driven purely by money. I have some historic and Irish related items that I may donate to our National Photograph Archive where I am currently cataloguing a significant Irish collection of cameras, about which I have just written an article which will appear on the website of the National Library of Ireland. As I indicated before, I buy old cameras because I am interested in them and not as an investment.

William