Would you buy a CL fullframe 24 mpx camera?

[Le Chef]

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I wish the CL had the ability to switch to the old fashioned SLR split prism for manual focusing when using M mount lenses. The fringing/highlighting is nowhere near as effective as the split prism focusing aid.

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[Pelu2010]

2 hours ago, Gregm61 said:

Best bet….use lenses now available with the only CL we  do have. I am totting a quartet of primes with mine today covering 24-135mm; Sigma 16mm f1.4, Leica TL 35/1.4 and 60/2.8 and Sigma 90mm f2.8.

Yesterday I was out with the CL and a set of manual focus Voigtlander VM lenses; 15mm f4.5 III, 21mm f1.4, 35mm f1.2 III and 75mm f1.5.

What we do have is a GREAT platform for all sorts of lenses.

Hey , I know . 
And I am enjoying myself. 
But the question was if it would be a goal to have a small Leica with interchangeable lenses. Small cl FF. 

[KitW]

At risk of hijacking the thread slightly... If another manufacturer made a popular APSC camera would Leica ever be likely to resurrect the TL lens line? I suspect not... But have no intuition into how much of an undertaking this would be.

[hayrr]

whether we'd buy it or not is a moot point really since no one else would (hence why the CL was discontinued) and has no chance of ever being produced. 

[Stuart Richardson]

In answer to the original question: do you think you would buy it? I would say no. I think the SL2 does the job I want it to, and I think the SL APO primes are an ideal size for me (albeit, coming from the S system and medium format, mostly). For a truly compact camera, I think the Ricoh GR series and Leica M do a better job. The Q camera is essentially what you are asking for, only with a choice of two focal lengths. All camera design involves compromises and priorities. Leica may well be able to do this, but it would be at the cost of other things -- lens quality, evf quality, heat dissipation, battery life etc. They tried to do it the best they could with the T, TL, TL2 and CL and it did not seem to work very well in the market. Doing it in full frame would be another risk and as you indicate, would beg for new lenses that balance with a smaller, lighter body. That probably means more Panasonic/Sigma sub-contracted lenses. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it does start to blur the lines as to what is the specific point of the camera in the Leica lineup. Leica's pride is in being top notch in optics, and what you are asking for is a camera that would necessarily make larger compromises there. It just does not add up for me at least.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[lct]

Fact is an entry camera is missing at Leica. A Leica variant of the Sigma fpl or Panasonic S9 could be welcome if it has a built-in EVF.

[Pelu2010]

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24 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

In answer to the original question: do you think you would buy it? I would say no. I think the SL2 does the job I want it to, and I think the SL APO primes are an ideal size for me (albeit, coming from the S system and medium format, mostly). For a truly compact camera, I think the Ricoh GR series and Leica M do a better job. The Q camera is essentially what you are asking for, only with a choice of two focal lengths. All camera design involves compromises and priorities. Leica may well be able to do this, but it would be at the cost of other things -- lens quality, evf quality, heat dissipation, battery life etc. They tried to do it the best they could with the T, TL, TL2 and CL and it did not seem to work very well in the market. Doing it in full frame would be another risk and as you indicate, would beg for new lenses that balance with a smaller, lighter body. That probably means more Panasonic/Sigma sub-contracted lenses. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it does start to blur the lines as to what is the specific point of the camera in the Leica lineup. Leica's pride is in being top notch in optics, and what you are asking for is a camera that would necessarily make larger compromises there. It just does not add up for me at least.

At that time there was no USB-C and its 10 years of development of sensors and electronics. 

The battery life can be addressed by adding usb-c (I use it all the time with the sl2 and the q3) 

But I would love to have a smaller alternativ or B-Roll camera for many things. 

For my Timelapse and when I need to enclose the camera somehow.

For my work with a gimbal.

For my personal work, when I am relaxing and I don't won't to take a big camera on the run.

When I have to mount the camera on something fast, small, slow or an animal. 

Just when weight matters and the gopros suck. 

And if the normal shooter can use the camera too, that's a bonus too.

I would love to enter the Leica small camera with interchangeable lens era.

cheers Peter  

[Gregm61]

Saturday I took my CL out for a walk around the lake using a set of manual focus Voigtlander VM lenses. The manual focus peaking (using white) was a very accurate indication of both focus position confirmation and depth of field. With peaking you can literally watch the focus/depth of field indication move across the field to exactly where you want it to be; no better shown than with the 75mm f1.5..

21mm f1.4 Nokton; on the CL a great semi-wide "normal" lens..

Close to, if not wide open.....can't remember...

35mm f1.2 III, at f1.2...

and the 15mm f4.5 III, a fantastic 22.5mm wide angle on the CL..

I'll be heading out again today with these plus one other....a n21 10mm f5.6 Hyperwide I just received from Cameraquest to get my down to a 15mm super-wide on the CL.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Gregm61

[Gregm61]

From an initial set of images captured with the CL and 10mm f5.6 Voigtlander Hyper-Wide.

[Justaleicaguy]

Yes I would buy. As soon as I saw the Panasonic S9 I thought Leica please make this with an EVF. The CL is an great camera but one or two small improvements would make it truly amazing. I find I’m using my CL more than my Q2 and being more successful with it. 

[allans1976]

Am 31.10.2024 um 11:39 schrieb Pelu2010:

Hey, 

if Leica would build a fullframe CL with L mount and USB-C port, would you buy it? 

Long, short: Yes.

But please make the hand grip with a tripod thread. 😉

[allans1976]

Not such beautiful weather as yours, a few foggy October pictures from Nuremberg.
With a plastic tarantula that I found on the pedestrian walkway on the bridge.

Leica CL, Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21mm f4, DNG to JPEG 1080p (for Instagram), Capture One (unfortunately, I don't really know which compression is best for the Leica Forum)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited November 13, 2024 by allans1976

[Pelu2010]

2 hours ago, allans1976 said:

Not such beautiful weather as yours, a few foggy October pictures from Nuremberg.
With a plastic tarantula that I found on the pedestrian walkway on the bridge.

Leica CL, Voigtländer Color-Skopar 21mm f4, DNG to JPEG 1080p (for Instagram), Capture One (unfortunately, I don't really know which compression is best for the Leica Forum)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Tarantula is great! 

More Tarantula images pls ! 

[1stLeica]

Will the CL fullframe come with the same 'wandering focus point' issue that Leica never saw the need to address on the CL APS-C?

[Pelu2010]

5 hours ago, 1stLeica said:

Will the CL fullframe come with the same 'wandering focus point' issue that Leica never saw the need to address on the CL APS-C?

This will be the first issue that will be fixed. 
 

[1stLeica]

5 minutes ago, Pelu2010 said:

This will be the first issue that will be fixed. 
 

 Aha!  That must be why there hasn't been a CL2 as yet - Leica can't figure out how to fix the wandering focus point issue! 😁

[LocalHero1953]

On 11/11/2024 at 3:07 PM, lct said:

Fact is an entry camera is missing at Leica. A Leica variant of the Sigma fpl or Panasonic S9 could be welcome if it has a built-in EVF.

Leica D-Lux? But why does Leica need an entry camera, if they can make enough money without a separate product line? The demand expressed in this thread is not for an entry camera but for a small full frame camera. And Leica's response to that demand is the Q3 and Q3 43 - which are reported to be selling very well.

[lct]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Leica D-Lux? But why does Leica need an entry camera, if they can make enough money without a separate product line? The demand expressed in this thread is not for an entry camera but for a small full frame camera. And Leica's response to that demand is the Q3 and Q3 43 - which are reported to be selling very well.

What you call a fast full frame camera is the entry camera i find missing at Leica. Not a point and shoot or a vlogging camera but a Leica variant of the Sigma fpl or Panasonic S9 to fit TL, SL and M lenses, the same way as the CL used to do but in full frame format with cropping cababilities for TL lenses. As a Sigma fpl user, i can figure out easily how relevant such a camera could be with a built-in EVF.

Edited November 19, 2024 by lct

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[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, lct said:

What you call a fast full frame camera is the entry camera i find missing at Leica. Not a point and shoot or a vlogging camera but a Leica variant of the Sigma fpl or Panasonic S9 to fit TL, SL and M lenses, the same way as the CL used to do but in full frame format with cropping cababilities for TL lenses. As a Sigma fpl user, i can figure out easily how relevant such a camera could be with a built-in EVF.

I understand an 'entry' product to be a cheap one designed to hook new users - like the D-Lux. How long have you owned Leicas? Do you need an entry camera? I suspect not. Everyone posting here already has the hard habit of Leicas. That's why I wrote that the demand is for a small full frame camera, not entry level. Of course we would all like it to be cheap as well..........

Personally I found the Sigma fp uncomfortable in the hand on its own, and clunky when used with all the add-on bits. It's good for video and the S9 looks similar. Not for me for stills. I would be very pleased if Leica introduced a [full frame CL / small SL / Panasonic S9 with built-in EVF / L-Mount EVF M🙄], but I suspect Leica sees the Q as addressing that niche (small full-frame), even though that leaves some customers' wishes unfulfilled.

Edited November 19, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[Pelu2010]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I understand an 'entry' product to be a cheap one designed to hook new users - like the D-Lux. How long have you owned Leicas? Do you need an entry camera? I suspect not. Everyone posting here already has the hard habit of Leicas. That's why I wrote that the demand is for a small full frame camera, not entry level. Of course we would all like it to be cheap as well..........

Personally I found the Sigma fp to be uncomfortable in the hand on its own, and clunky when used with all the add-on bits. It's good for video and the S9 looks similar. Not for me for stills. I would be very pleased if Leica introduced a [full frame CL / small SL / Panasonic S9 with built-in EVF / L-Mount EVF M🙄], but I suspect Leica sees the Q as addressing that niche (small full-frame), even though that leaves some customers wishes unfulfilled.

I want to clarify that we weren't discussing or pleading for lower prices. Some of us mentioned the S9 as it shows the potential that might be able to be developed.
For me, the focus isn't on price or how it’s built. What I would truly appreciate is a small full-frame camera with interchangeable lenses—one that allows me to use all my existing glass if I choose.
I envision a compact SL: Why? Because sometimes size really matters. Larger cameras can become cumbersome, and while I value having the lenses, I don't necessarily need a bulky body.
That’s my main point; price is secondary. If I preferred a more affordable option, I'd simply wait for the right opportunity.
While SL cameras have their advantages, they also come with notable dimensions. If it’s feasible in the future, I would love to see a smaller full-frame camera. We can discuss the desired features down the line.
I’m curious if others share this sentiment or if everyone out there is hitting the gym and bulked up like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I certainly am not. The larger lenses contribute to even more weight.
So that’s all from me. If you're interested in such a camera, please show some love with a heart emoji, and we can see how many of us are on the same page.
Cheers,
Peter