JohnathanLovm Posted January 14 Share #261 Posted January 14 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 hours ago, Photoworks said: 48/96 MP handheld multishot mode I wish the multishot mode support flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14 Posted January 14 Hi JohnathanLovm, Take a look here Leica SL3-S Incoming?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
helged Posted January 14 Share #262 Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnathanLovm said: I wish the multishot mode support flash. How could it? (if I understand your wish correctly). In Multishot mode, the electronic shutter is used, whereas mechanical shutter is needed for flash (at least for the cameras I have used, although this is about to change with global (electronic) shutters). Putting the electronic shutter aside, in Multishot mode, eight consecutive images are taken almost without delay, each shifted one pixel relative to the others. So in order to add flash to the Multishot mode, you would need a flash that fires as quickly as the images are taken. I don't think any of the commonly used flashes can do this. Edited January 14 by helged Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanLovm Posted January 14 Share #263 Posted January 14 3 hours ago, helged said: How could it? (if I understand your wish correctly). In Multishot mode, the electronic shutter is used, whereas mechanical shutter is needed for flash (at least for the cameras I have used, although this is about to change with global (electronic) shutters). Putting the electronic shutter aside, in Multishot mode, eight consecutive images are taken almost without delay, each shifted one pixel relative to the others. So in order to add flash to the Multishot mode, you would need a flash that fires as quickly as the images are taken. I don't think any of the commonly used flashes can do this. Well, the Hasselblad X2D’s 4.0 firmware allow multi-shot with flash, just put it on tripod, set the shutter intervals for flash’s cool down time and you are good to go. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #264 Posted January 14 Very static though. The SL2S has handheld pixel shift which shoots 8 images in a fraction of a second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 14 Share #265 Posted January 14 25 minutes ago, JohnathanLovm said: Well, the Hasselblad X2D’s 4.0 firmware allow multi-shot with flash, just put it on tripod, set the shutter intervals for flash’s cool down time and you are good to go. Sure, for 1 sec (or whatever) time interval between the images, flash can be part of Multishot. Otherwise, not. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 14 Share #266 Posted January 14 (edited) 41 minutes ago, JohnathanLovm said: Well, the Hasselblad X2D’s 4.0 firmware allow multi-shot with flash, just put it on tripod, set the shutter intervals for flash’s cool down time and you are good to go. Interval shooting is different from multi shot, or rather what I think is intended here by multi shot. I understand multi shot as a short series of shots with a slight shift of the sensor each time, then combining them to make a much higher res image. I can understand that that is not possible with flash. Edited January 14 by LocalHero1953 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. G Posted January 14 Share #267 Posted January 14 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: Yes - it’s not just where you want to stop motion, but also when you must be totally silent. The Q series is an alternative option given that the leaf shutter is just a whisper, especially now the Q3 43 is not far behind the SL2-S in low light performance. True, but with the SL3 we get to stay in mechanical shutter until 1/8000. The Q series tops out at 1/2000. Not an issue for low light or silent event shooting for the most part, but I still find myself using an ND filter outdoors sometimes to stay in mechanical shutter range. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 14 Share #268 Posted January 14 2 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said: Well, the Hasselblad X2D’s 4.0 firmware allow multi-shot with flash, just put it on tripod, set the shutter intervals for flash’s cool down time and you are good to go. The only use I can think of for this is tabletop/copy work in a studio. Am I missing something? It seems like a specialized application for which few people would choose an action/video camera like the SL3-S. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Orient Lux Posted January 14 Share #269 Posted January 14 (edited) I don't understand Leica's marketing angle for the SL. Leica is obviously not the technology leader in modern mirrorless cameras, but has entered into a rather unfortunate alliance with Panasonic, which unfortunately also plays second fiddle when it comes to camera innovations. And now, with the SL3-S, they are bringing out another camera that continues to lag behind the technology leaders in terms of technical features (autofocus, clinging to a 24 MB sensor that is no longer state-of-the-art because the 60 MB sensor cannot be managed) in the photo sector and also fails to convince demanding professionals when it comes to video. Unfortunately, neither fish nor fowl. So, who is this camera for? The ‘discerning amateur’? Well, the already available SL3 is probably more than adequate for filming the candles on grandma's birthday cake and the soon to be drunk great-uncle. Edited January 14 by Ex Orient Lux 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 14 Share #270 Posted January 14 7 hours ago, JohnathanLovm said: I wish the multishot mode support flash. Well, there's always magnesium powder flashes. That is about 1/7th of a second burn time. If you have to travel I am sure TSA will be understanding if you tell them that you intend to use it to photograph, and not blow up the plane. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 14 Share #271 Posted January 14 42 minutes ago, Ex Orient Lux said: I don't understand Leica's marketing angle for the SL. Leica is obviously not the technology leader in modern mirrorless cameras, but has entered into a rather unfortunate alliance with Panasonic, which unfortunately also plays second fiddle when it comes to camera innovations. And now, with the SL3-S, they are bringing out another camera that continues to lag behind the technology leaders in terms of technical features (autofocus, clinging to a 24 MB sensor that is no longer state-of-the-art because the 60 MB sensor cannot be managed) in the photo sector and also fails to convince demanding professionals when it comes to video. Unfortunately, neither fish nor fowl. So, who is this camera for? The ‘discerning amateur’? Well, the already available SL3 is probably more than adequate for filming the candles on grandma's birthday cake and the soon to be drunk great-uncle. Most professionals and artists I know are more concerned with handling and lens quality and flexibility than they are the bleeding edge technical advancements. As a printer I can tell you that there really hasn't been a pro camera since 2015 or earlier that wasn't capable of beautiful prints. Most professional video people I know have no interest in 8k, some are not even that interested in 4k. None of them use autofocus for video at all. Most of them don't really look at any stills focused mirrorless camera as a viable professional tool. They are using Arri, RED or Blackmagic etc. I don't know what the SL3S will be, but I am sure that the people using it well will be more interested in the sum total of its parts, rather than the most extreme technical boundaries of the body. That is generally more of interest to amateurs anyway. If you want the most bleeding edge tech there are better companies to chase. Leica has always been more focused on utility/ergonomics, overall build and image quality. And Leica certainly has been a leader in some ways. If I recall they were the first with a high resolution viewfinder in the SL, and the second with full frame 4k...it might have been the first internal? I believe the A7S was external 4k only. Either way, the SL was three years before Canon and Nikon. I think you are mistaking focusing on different areas with being out of date. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 14 Share #272 Posted January 14 40 minutes ago, Ex Orient Lux said: I don't understand Leica's marketing angle for the SL. Leica is obviously not the technology leader in modern mirrorless cameras, but has entered into a rather unfortunate alliance with Panasonic, which unfortunately also plays second fiddle when it comes to camera innovations. And now, with the SL3-S, they are bringing out another camera that continues to lag behind the technology leaders in terms of technical features (autofocus, clinging to a 24 MB sensor that is no longer state-of-the-art because the 60 MB sensor cannot be managed) in the photo sector and also fails to convince demanding professionals when it comes to video. Unfortunately, neither fish nor fowl. So, who is this camera for? The ‘discerning amateur’? Well, the already available SL3 is probably more than adequate for filming the candles on grandma's birthday cake and the soon to be drunk great-uncle. That's just the classic "pro myth" at play. It's the notion that we all need the same equipment that a photojournalist or sports shooter would use, even though those professions rarely pay enough to cover basic living expenses. You may as well tell me that I should furnish my home to look like a dentist's waiting room, because that's what the "pros" use. What about image quality? What about enjoying the art of photography? What about personal expression? Frankly, I saw a lot of photography fashion victims back when I was shooting weddings. There would almost always be a guest who bought the most inappropriate pro kit (paying more money than the actual working pros who used Leicas), and generally made a nuisance of themselves: stepping in front of the paid photographers to grab a shot, walking around in a distracting way during the ceremony with their stovepipe zooms and flashes, asking you questions about basic camera settings while you are trying to work, etc. If you aren't getting results from your Leica kit, it's unlikely that equipment is your primary problem. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 14 Share #273 Posted January 14 16 hours ago, jaapv said: In that case I hope that the SL3S will be a suitable tool for you. Knowing that the sensor is the same as the S5Ii and assuming that the digital pipeline has been upgraded the readout should be about 15-20 Ms. AFAIK, the readout time is part if the sensor spec and is independent of the processing pipeline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 14 Share #274 Posted January 14 4 hours ago, jaapv said: Very static though. The SL2S has handheld pixel shift which shoots 8 images in a fraction of a second. You may be thinking of a different camera. SL2 series have only tripod bases multi shot. Handheld multi shot is not based on pixel shift, but on camera movements. The time it takes to collect 8 shots depends on the readout time and shutter speed used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Orient Lux Posted January 14 Share #275 Posted January 14 vor 24 Minuten schrieb BernardC: That's just the classic "pro myth" at play. It's the notion that we all need the same equipment that a photojournalist or sports shooter would use, even though those professions rarely pay enough to cover basic living expenses. You may as well tell me that I should furnish my home to look like a dentist's waiting room, because that's what the "pros" use. What about image quality? What about enjoying the art of photography? What about personal expression? Frankly, I saw a lot of photography fashion victims back when I was shooting weddings. There would almost always be a guest who bought the most inappropriate pro kit (paying more money than the actual working pros who used Leicas), and generally made a nuisance of themselves: stepping in front of the paid photographers to grab a shot, walking around in a distracting way during the ceremony with their stovepipe zooms and flashes, asking you questions about basic camera settings while you are trying to work, etc. If you aren't getting results from your Leica kit, it's unlikely that equipment is your primary problem. You are certainly right about your experience in the field of wedding photography. However, I find your argument contradictory: If it's not about technical features, not about ‘faster, higher, further’, but rather about image quality, the art of photography and the personal expression, I understand even less what Leica is aiming for with the SL3-S. The existing SL3 can do all the things you mentioned as important more than adequately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #276 Posted January 14 52 minutes ago, SrMi said: You may be thinking of a different camera. SL2 series have only tripod bases multi shot. Handheld multi shot is not based on pixel shift, but on camera movements. The time it takes to collect 8 shots depends on the readout time and shutter speed used. We are talking about the SL3S which is said to have 48/96 MP high res mode. Clearly you the Panasonic implementation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 14 Share #277 Posted January 14 40 minutes ago, Ex Orient Lux said: I understand even less what Leica is aiming for with the SL3-S. The existing SL3 can do all the things you mentioned as important more than adequately. The SL3-S will be one of the very best low-light shooters on the market, as were the SL and SL2-S in their time. On top of that it will have improved AF for those who need it, and class-leading video. It seems like a clear-enough market position in my eyes. If you need the highest resolution in full-frame, get the SL3. Keep in mind that you'll want APO-SL lenses and excellent technique to fully exploit that potential. If you don't need the ultimate resolution (most photographs don't), but you shoot video, or low-light, or high frame rates, get the SL3-S. Either one is a valid choice. If you are a professional sports shooter, get an R1 or Z9 (or an a1 if you don't need Canon and Nikon's pro support). If you want even more resolution than the SL3 provides, have a serious look at medium format and large format. The S4 is coming-out soon-ish, so that could be an option for next year. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #278 Posted January 14 1 hour ago, SrMi said: AFAIK, the readout time is part if the sensor spec and is independent of the processing pipeline. Somewhat more complex: https://exclusivearchitecture.com/03-technical-articles-DSLR-06-signal-processing.html Quote The Readout Process Once the row selector activates a line (RSL), all pixels from that line apply their charge or voltage (depending on the type of pixel design) to the readout line (RL) that directly leads to the column selector. That column selector is a multiplexer that always connects only one readout line with the analog signal processor. The column selector switches through all columns until all pixels from the selected row have been read out. After that, the row selector activates the next line, and the column readout starts again. Each pixel signal is processed by an analog-to-digital converter, and is forwarded to the digital signal processor unit. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/413145-leica-sl3-s-incoming/?do=findComment&comment=5739449'>More sharing options...
SrMi Posted January 14 Share #279 Posted January 14 1 minute ago, jaapv said: Somewhat more complex: https://exclusivearchitecture.com/03-technical-articles-DSLR-06-signal-processing.html I have seen your earlier post, but I do not know how it affects readout time. The readout time is much slower than any initial processing time. The sensor is read out at the shortest possible time, and then the data is fed to the rest and a more complex digital pipeline. We can see that all cameras with the same base sensor technology and resolution have the same readout time (M11, fp-L, a7rV, SL3). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14 Share #280 Posted January 14 The controller and timer are of influence. https://www.photometrics.com/learn/imaging-topics/readout-vs-frame-rate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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