Leica SL3-S Incoming?

[jpark114]

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Probably just me, but I'd like to see a stacked sensor in it... then perhaps..

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[jaapv]

The specific technology is of no interest. The results count. 

[Cronilux]

If I could wish for anything they should not add it would be a flip out screen. Nothing makes a camera more clunky, than this. 

They could add a tilt screen like the Nikon z8 has. This would not increase the foot print of the camera that much, but would make it usable in all angles no matter if you shoot portrait or landscape oriented.

I am sure it’ll basically have the SL3 body with the tilt screen and I would be super happy with that. 
 

We all will know more in 8 days. 

[Geoff C. Bassett]

58 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I think that Leica will consider the percentage of photographers who really need a super-short read-out time.
Given that it is said that the S5Ii sensor is a co-development of Leica and Panasonic which seems to be a reasonable assumption, I doubt that we will see a revolutionary change there. But time will tell. 

I don't understand people who are saying they are going to be using the same sensor from the S5 II. It's the same processor in the SL2s, it's old.

 It is not enough of an upgrade to justify a new camera release, they won't be using that sensor again. Additionally it can't do 60p at full sensor width. So they would not be able to sell a video orientated camera with that sensor in it in the current market. It makes absolutely NO SENSE.

Edited January 8 by Geoff C. Bassett

[jaapv]

Hmm.. a sensor is not a processor - two different parts altogether.  The SL2S has the Maestro 3 processor, the S5ii a new one (probably the Maestro4 from the SL3, said to be a co-developed  one between Panasonic and Leica as well). For most video makers the sensor of the S5ii seems to make a lot of sense, as does the whole package.
But a "NEW!!!"  label does appear  to attract the upgrade junkies, that is true. 

[simon_hsn]

Agreed, it’s important to differentiate between sensors and processors, as both play distinct yet critical roles in the imaging pipeline.

• It makes sense that the SL3-S would inherit the same Maestro IV processor as the SL3, following the precedent set by the SL2 and SL2-S.

• Regarding the sensor, I anticipate Leica will introduce something new. The Panasonic S5II was launched nearly two years ago, so it seems unlikely that Leica would aim to merely match the video performance of a camera that is already somewhat dated.

Considering the competitive landscape with Nikon, Sony, and Canon, along with Leica’s typical four-year cycle for the SL series, I would expect a new sensor capable of delivering 60p or even 120p without crop. Ideally, it would be a stacked sensor with very fast readout speeds, which would significantly reduce rolling shutter.

[SrMi]

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6 hours ago, helged said:

The S5ii sensor with a 20+ ms readout time is not particularly interesting for me (having SL3 with similarly slow readout time), so I hope for something different. Based on the past, 'reuse' of sensors are more the rule than the opposite, so the S5ii-sensor is possible, though. 

SL3 should have a much slower readout time than S5II (100ms in 14-bit mode?).

[helged]

59 minutes ago, SrMi said:

SL3 should have a much slower readout time than S5II (100ms in 14-bit mode?).

Yes, I think you are correct - something like 1/10 sec for SL3. Very, very slow...

[hdmesa]

15 hours ago, helged said:

...I would even love to have a fully articulated screen... 

Which would actually make it useful more than 50% of the time for many of us. Do they think we're all horizontal landscape shooters? Makes me want to rip the screen off the camera when I have it deployed and need to switch to vertical shooting.

I don't need the kind of flip out screen robustness that allows me to hold my camera by the screen. They can simply make the rear screen fully articulating but put in a failsafe whereby a broken rear screen automatically engages EVF only mode until the screen is replaced.

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Which would actually make it useful more than 50% of the time for many of us. Do they think we're all horizontal landscape shooters? Makes me want to rip the screen off the camera when I have it deployed and need to switch to vertical shooting.

I don't need the kind of flip out screen robustness that allows me to hold my camera by the screen. They can simply make the rear screen fully articulating but put in a failsafe whereby a broken rear screen automatically engages EVF only mode until the screen is replaced.

The current flip-out screen is practical when shooting handheld. I dislike fully articulated screens as they are cumbersome to unfold and increase the camera's footprint. I understand that my opinion is not universal :).

[jpark114]

As for the screen solution, I think Sony's latest articulating & flip screen is perfect, but then it kinda makes a camera thicker and.... uglier I guess?

 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

The current flip-out screen is practical when shooting handheld. I dislike fully articulated screens as they are cumbersome to unfold and increase the camera's footprint. I understand that my opinion is not universal :).

Yes, if you only need 2-way tilt as it is now, you have a very robust screen with minimal fuss. But it's also thick as a brick and cumbersome in its own way because it sticks out too much from the body, IMO. I've not used the Sony circus screens that tilt every which way, but I liked the GFX 100S articulating screen design a lot, and it's still not as thick as the SL3 screen, though perhaps Fujifilm is cheating the thickness a bit by sloping the edges of the screen frame.

[ALScott]

I am still less than 12 months in to Leica but it would make sense to me from a marketing perspective to have a model that focuses on significantly improved AF over the SL3 and offer things like a fully articulating rear screen or high FPS among other options even at slightly less megapixels.  Then you offer buyers a true choice, less AF needs, lower FPS and simple screen, buy SL3, need/want awesome AF and fully articulating screen and high FPS buy SL3-S.  In a nutshell that's what I hope they come out with as I would love to have two SL bodies with very different capabilities.  I do love the flexibility of 60 megapixels but would gladly take somewhat less in exchange for smoking fast and reliable AF if only to stop the constant comparison to Nikon, Sony and Canon.  I love my SL3 and it has missed some shots that I can never duplicate but that has happened with every AF camera I have ever had.

Edited January 9 by ALScott

[la1402]

22 hours ago, simon_hsn said:

• [....] The Panasonic S5II was launched nearly two years ago, so it seems unlikely that Leica would aim to merely match the video performance of a camera that is already somewhat dated.

Actually, that would be very likely. We are all guessing but using the S5II core would be very much like Leica.

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, la1402 said:

Actually, that would be very likely. We are all guessing but using the S5II core would be very much like Leica.

We know that the two companies formed the "L2 Alliance" several years ago, so using the same core is a given: CPU architecture, I/O, AF, code architecture (not the GUI). Panasonic also admitted that they learned a lot from Leica about image processing, and that the split of responsibilities is equal between the two partners. In a way, the S5ii is already a Leica!

The rumoured S1r replacement is also said to be an "SL3 clone," we'll see if that's true.

My bet is that the SL3-s (or whatever it is called) will be an evolution of the S5iix, just like the S1H replacement will be. I expect that we'll see a faster evolution of the CPU, more/better I/O, and an improved 24MP sensor with faster readout.

Others here have suggested that we'll see a sensor in the 32-42MP range. I would love to see an updated 40MP M10R sensor (7864 pixels wide, compare and contrast to the 7680 × 4320 "8K UHD" video specification).

[tomasis7]

23 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Others here have suggested that we'll see a sensor in the 32-42MP range. I would love to see an updated 40MP M10R sensor (7864 pixels wide, compare and contrast to the 7680 × 4320 "8K UHD" video specification).

i doubt unless SL3S has built in Fan and heatsink aka GH7.

[SrMi]

21 hours ago, tomasis7 said:

i doubt unless SL3S has built in Fan and heatsink aka GH7.

Or S5IIx.

[jaapv]

22 hours ago, tomasis7 said:

i doubt unless SL3S has built in Fan and heatsink aka GH7.

GH 7 is MFT. But the full frame S5Ii has this as well 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jaapv]

22 hours ago, BernardC said:

We know that the two companies formed the "L2 Alliance" several years ago, so using the same core is a given: CPU architecture, I/O, AF, code architecture (not the GUI). Panasonic also admitted that they learned a lot from Leica about image processing, and that the split of responsibilities is equal between the two partners. In a way, the S5ii is already a Leica!

The rumoured S1r replacement is also said to be an "SL3 clone," we'll see if that's true.

My bet is that the SL3-s (or whatever it is called) will be an evolution of the S5iix, just like the S1H replacement will be. I expect that we'll see a faster evolution of the CPU, more/better I/O, and an improved 24MP sensor with faster readout.

Others here have suggested that we'll see a sensor in the 32-42MP range. I would love to see an updated 40MP M10R sensor (7864 pixels wide, compare and contrast to the 7680 × 4320 "8K UHD" video specification).

The L Alliance is for the lens mount. But Leica and Panasonic have extensive technical cooperation contracts that predate the alliance by many years. 

[BernardC]

14 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The L Alliance is for the lens mount. But Leica and Panasonic have extensive technical cooperation contracts that predate the alliance by many years. 

The Leica Panasonic alliance is actually called L² Technology:

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/L2_technology.html

It's more all-inclusive than their previous cooperation agreement.

The key things are that it's a separate agreement from the L Mount alliance, and it explicitly mentions the sharing of components and tech. The first of these techs is the new processor family used by the S5ii and SL3 (and accompanying code base).