Autofocus Comparison Leica SL2(-S) vs. Leica SL3

[LocalHero1953]

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38 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Could be entirely true, but I'd never know as I don't use or need AFc.

+1

And very rarely burst shooting.

Edited August 24, 2024 by LocalHero1953

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[Cronilux]

Then this thread is not for you @hdmesaand @LocalHero1953 and you can simply enjoy the SL2 or SL3, since it meets all your needs. Makes me happy for you. 
 

Just to be clear. I love the SL2-S in all other regards. I just wish for a way better AF tracking with continuous shooting. 

[Simone_DF]

18 hours ago, Markey said:

I`d like to know why Panasonic (and I`m assuming the af system is Panasonic) lags behind the other manufacturers as regards their af system.

Because until one year ago, they were stuck with that silly DFD, which is contrast-based, and PDAF was not implemented. 
But lacklustre sales pushed Panasonic to implement PDAF on the S5II. They are still behind, but the difference is much thinner. From my personal experience, the S5II has more or less the same AF performance of a Sony A7III, i.e. more than enough for most situations 

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, Cronilux said:

Then this thread is not for you @hdmesaand @LocalHero1953 

Looks like it.

You should have written the title to make the specific scope of your assessment clear. I have never tried the SL3, but I might be interested in a possible SL3-S, so anything that looks at how matters have changed between the generations is of interest. If anyone looks beyond AFc and burst mode (which are, of course, relevant to many), I will pay more attention.
 

Edited August 25, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[BernardC]

18 hours ago, Cronilux said:

They were pretty dominant in video, when there wasn’t Sony as a competitor. I don’t know why anyone chooses Panasonic nowadays. 

I know it's customary to "pile it on" in this type of thread, but many serious working videographers consider Panasonic's video AF to be better than Sony's. I personally never use AF with video, because it actively interferes with narrative storytelling (where the focus plane is part of the story you are telling).

As always, if your still photography demands the fastest AF (sports and other similar applications), you should just buy a Canon kit, or perhaps a high-end Nikon. That's their niche.

[jaapv]

I can vouch for the quality of the newest version of Panasonic AF. The previous one was on par with the present Leica. 

[Luke_Miller]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

As always, if your still photography demands the fastest AF (sports and other similar applications), you should just buy a Canon kit, or perhaps a high-end Nikon. That's their niche.

For most of my shooting my SL and SL2 work beautifully.  When shooting sports or other action I have my Nikon D5 and Z8.  Horses for courses.

[Photoworks]

19 hours ago, Cronilux said:

They were pretty dominant in video, when there wasn’t Sony as a competitor. I don’t know why anyone chooses Panasonic nowadays. 

In video, the Panasonic options are superb, and in line with what professionals want. Leica implements some of Panasonic's options which is good for us.

Sony is catching up on Panasonic, since feeling the pressure.

[Cronilux]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

I can vouch for the quality of the newest version of Panasonic AF. The previous one was on par with the present Leica. 

And could we expect to get it in the SL3 with an update? 

Edited August 25, 2024 by Cronilux

[Cronilux]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb BernardC:

As always, if your still photography demands the fastest AF (sports and other similar applications), you should just buy a Canon kit, or perhaps a high-end Nikon. That's their niche.

I don’t need the fastest. I own several Sony cameras and have super fast and reliable tracking if I really need it.

The SL3 as a 3rd generation just should be way better as it currently is. 

[Cronilux]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Photoworks:

In video, the Panasonic options are superb, and in line with what professionals want. Leica implements some of Panasonic's options which is good for us.

Sony is catching up on Panasonic, since feeling the pressure.

I don’t think Sony feels any pressure AF wise. 

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Cronilux said:

Then this thread is not for you @hdmesaand @LocalHero1953 and you can simply enjoy the SL2 or SL3, since it meets all your needs. Makes me happy for you. 
 

Just to be clear. I love the SL2-S in all other regards. I just wish for a way better AF tracking with continuous shooting. 

I wish they all had better AFc tracking, too. I could actually use it. I just didn't expect much I guess. My S5IIX and Zf were about the same – they tracked well, but the iris of the eye gets missed too often for it to be viable to wide open portraits for me. Given what I saw from those two cameras, I was literally expecting zero from Leica for AFc tracking. I can't believe anyone thinks the S5II tracks well. I guess they've not tried Canon/Sony.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Cronilux said:

I don’t think Sony feels any pressure AF wise. 

I suppose you only care for AF, and oversharpen images, so why not stay with Sony?

Nobody cares what you use, most people just see the results.

[Cronilux]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Photoworks:

I suppose you only care for AF, and oversharpen images, so why not stay with Sony?

Nobody cares what you use, most people just see the results.

I am shooting Raw, I couldn’t care less about the in camera processing. Why the assumption? I shoot Leica, cause I enjoy the colors I get from them. I have all Q cameras, an M10 and an M10-p and added the SL2-S to have an AF camera from Leica. I enjoy my SL2-S a lot. I shot M-Lenses on it as well. I just wished I could get rid of my Sony Cameras, which I can’t as long as the AF system is how it is currently. 

[Photoworks]

40 minutes ago, Cronilux said:

I am shooting Raw, I couldn’t care less about the in camera processing. Why the assumption? I shoot Leica, cause I enjoy the colors I get from them. I have all Q cameras, an M10 and an M10-p and added the SL2-S to have an AF camera from Leica. I enjoy my SL2-S a lot. I shot M-Lenses on it as well. I just wished I could get rid of my Sony Cameras, which I can’t as long as the AF system is how it is currently. 

because you are assuming the Leica new camera is this wonder in AF, I don't think any of the reviews ever said that.

I don't think there is no camera in L-mount that can do that.

And if you look at the other offerings AF is getting better, but the real good AF in Sony is in the newer high-end cameras. 
Canon does not track AF in high framerate unless you have a sports camera.

In any case, I never expected the SL3 to be a sports camera.

[tom0511]

I moved from SL2-S to SL3 and find the AF-C has improved from unusable to quite ok.

I have changed some parameters of AF-C in the SL3 and I can shoot successful images from windsurfing, my dog running towards me etc., which I found nearly impossible with the SL2-S.

It's still not on the level of Canon R5 or R3, but it has improved quite a bit. What I don't like is that the viewfinder gets "unsharp"/lower resolution when you shoot AF-C. Also it's just 4 images/sec. if you want full resolution and bit depth.

 

[Cronilux]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb tom0511:

I moved from SL2-S to SL3 and find the AF-C has improved from unusable to quite ok.

I have changed some parameters of AF-C in the SL3 and I can shoot successful images from windsurfing, my dog running towards me etc., which I found nearly impossible with the SL2-S.

It's still not on the level of Canon R5 or R3, but it has improved quite a bit. What I don't like is that the viewfinder gets "unsharp"/lower resolution when you shoot AF-C. Also it's just 4 images/sec. if you want full resolution and bit depth.

 

See, that’s an accurate feedback which Is super helpful. Do you mind sharing your exact settings on the SL3?

[Cronilux]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Photoworks:

because you are assuming the Leica new camera is this wonder in AF, I don't think any of the reviews ever said that.

I don't think there is no camera in L-mount that can do that.

And if you look at the other offerings AF is getting better, but the real good AF in Sony is in the newer high-end cameras. 
Canon does not track AF in high framerate unless you have a sports camera.

In any case, I never expected the SL3 to be a sports camera.

I assume nothing, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked for comparison videos and user experiences. You seem to struggle reading precisely.  All I stated was my disappointment about the current feedback and the reviews online, that the SL3 is not a big step forward, which I woher would expect for a 7k price tag. 

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[hdmesa]

21 hours ago, Cronilux said:

I assume nothing, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked for comparison videos and user experiences. You seem to struggle reading precisely.  All I stated was my disappointment about the current feedback and the reviews online, that the SL3 is not a big step forward, which I woher would expect for a 7k price tag. 

All the YouTube videos I watched about the SL3 mentioned in one way or another that autofocus, although improved, struggled to keep up with moving subjects. Not everyone mentioned it, but many did.

Edited August 26, 2024 by hdmesa

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 8/26/2024 at 5:34 AM, Cronilux said:

I assume nothing, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked for comparison videos and user experiences. You seem to struggle reading precisely.  All I stated was my disappointment about the current feedback and the reviews online, that the SL3 is not a big step forward, which I woher would expect for a 7k price tag. 

Using price as a metric for performance will always disappoint. By using the price metric, you should expect a Hasselblad to have better AFC (it doesn't have it at all) or my Omega to tell better time than my smart watch. I get that more expensive *should* mean better but better at what? There's more than one measurement of *better* in cameras than just AF performance. How about IQ? Or build quality?

But really, price is dependent on one thing and one thing only. What the market will bear. Do you think a new iPhone is worth what they ask? A cheaper Android phone bests it in every way. Except build and user experience. Sound familiar?

*****A general comment*****

In the good ol' days we all got to complain about how Leica sensors were behind (they weren't) or how they missed this feature or that. Now that they have basically the best IQ high-res sensor available, we need something new to whinge about because we spent a sh** ton of money on a new body. That's currently AFC and sensor read out speed. Well, if you buy the SL3 as a speed camera you bought the wrong camera and it's your fault. At no time ever, in history, has Leica been the *speed* brand. And what is this thing where every camera needs to have AF that does all the work for you? If the SL doesn't do what you need shut up and move on. There are plenty of options.

Leica was VERY clear (they made YouTube videos about it) that they were concentrating absolutely on three things. IQ, build quality and user experience. Have they not done that with the SL3? Is there anywhere on the Leica universe where they said, here's the best sports camera of all time? Nope. The sensor is a known quantity. So, stop bitching about something you should have researched before you dropped your cash. AFC isn't as fast as a Z8? But the Z8 and move on! It's boring and tiresome for the rest of us that did our research and bought the camera knowing what we were getting. If you're needing the fastest camera then Leica doesn't have anything of interest to you. Sorry. And the constant whining won't change that. Just move on. There are plenty of options out there. Nothing wrong with that. Apple won't put a touch screen on a MacBook? Don't like it? Get something else.....

But here's what you do get for your 7K. I've just returned from Iceland. Small group photography tour to the highlands. Lots of volcanic dust/dirt. Lots of wind. Lots of intermittent rain (but nothing really bad. we were lucky). Had a Canon and Sony shooter plus me with a pair of SL3's and K with her Canon and Q's. On three occasions the LCD on the A7R5 shooters camera glitched and became unresponsive for a bit. It recovered after an hour or so in the dry. And it wasn't raining all the time. Also, he was new to Sony and was constantly asking me (I have that camera) to help him find settings. My camera never missed a beat. In rain and waterfall spray and dust they were basically impervious. These guys were constantly hiding their camera under jackets, and I was wiping mine off in the van after an hour in the rain. I know what I bought the SL3 for. And this was it. Sometimes the other guys stayed in the van when the wind was blowing and the rain and dirt were flying. Me? I was out in it taking photos and wiping the camera off with a wet cloth after.

You buy into the SL3 for the IQ, build quality and simplicity. That's it. That's why I have my A1.

Gordon

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