Should I buy a film M, and which one? Questions galore

[costa43]

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

M5 cameras are hard and expensive to repair. If anything breaks you are in trouble. 

I know of a few workshops that work on them but I’m not sure whether they can get all the parts if something specific goes wrong. Most standard jobs (rangefinder, seals, shutter speeds etc) are ok though from my enquiries.

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[jaapv]

Only a few, most workshops refuse M5 cameras and M5 specific spare parts are not available.

[colint544]

I also like the M5. Alan Starkie did a CLA on mine a couple of years ago. I'd sent him it because the battery contact had snapped off. He repurposed a battery chamber from an old Leica SL.

He told me that the M5 is essentially, and I'm quoting him here, 'an M4 in a fat suit', and it didn't trouble him to work on it. Aside from the battery contact, my M5 has never given any trouble in the 11 years I've had it.

[Sharpdressed]

I was in the same boat few months ago.

I went with a late M6 classic (1996) in mint conditions.

Few early M6 had some meter problems and zinc finish that can develop bubbles.

Late M6s have updated electronics and they are trouble free.

I like the black finish and they are ligher compared to an MP.

Finder is clear and contrasty and I haven’t noticed any flare versus my M2.

I probably wouldn’t go with the later M6TTL model as I’ve read that the meter is more difficult to repair and the body is bigger.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Sharpdressed

[hansvons]

10 hours ago, F456 said:

I am aware that apart from the modern metered film bodies (MP and possibly the recently released modern M6) the older M6s in both classic and TTL models are to all intents and purposes irreparable as far as the meters are concerned. M6TTL and M7 models are starting not even to be accepted for general service.

I look at this from a practical budget point of view. 

I shoot about 100 rolls a year, with chemistry, roughly 1K per year. I have an M6 and an M4P (film cameras always come in pairs). I bought it for 2.5K and the M4P for 1.7K. The difference is 800 EUR for the meter or one year of filmstock. If the camera lost its meter after one year, I'd lose a year's film stock. If the camera's meter breaks down in 4 years, I lose 200 EUR or 20 rolls. If the meter dies in 8 years, I'll lose ten rolls, and so on. Chances are high that analogue film will finally be dead at that time, or I won't be interested in shooting on film anymore. 

But if you shoot only ten rolls a year because analogue is more of a photographic side hustle, and you are sure you will pursue analogue film shooting for the next two decades and understand a camera as an investment or collectable, then I'd refrain from buying a used M6 Classic.

Otherwise, the 2k difference means enough rolls worth two years of shooting. The gamble is whether the meter will die in two years or not. I've already passed that. My M6 is from 1984; the meter is 30 years old. Will it die next year? Maybe, but it's relatively unlikely. Will it die in 10 years? It's more likely, but still not inevitable, as shown by many M5s with working light meters. 

 

[davidmknoble]

First, I love the MP’s.  I got an a-la’-carte before they stopped with a 0.85 finder for 50’s and longer which allow easier focus.

That said, the New M6 is brass, not zinc, has the MP/MA finder and new electronics.  So, if you like the M6 style, the remake M6 gets you a modern camera with the M6 functionality.

Just a thought.

David.

[BWColor]

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I have three 20 year old light meters, the Gossen Digital-Six and two Sekonics, an incident/spot and incident/flash .  The size and functionality of the six v2 can’t be beat.  I’ve had a nice Contax Aria die and it now acts as a paper weight.  Will parts for mechanical ‘M’ repair outlast electronic parts repair?  I’m asking myself this in that I’ll be selling some ‘M’ bodies, but which ones?  

[Danner]

Were I in your shoes, I'd buy a new M6 because it has the flare-reduced rangefinder optics, the articulated film-advance lever, and the faster film-rewind crank.

My 2¢.

[FrozenInTime]

1 hour ago, mark_s90 said:

Just buy the camera.  Just buy the camera.   Dont think about it, buy the camera.  If you have the money and it wont leave you homeless or car less, get the camera. 

 

 

True to form, within one week, treads like this, end up with recommendations for every M series rangefinder equipped camera.

So don't overthink the small differences is as good advice as you can get.

[a.noctilux]

44 minutes ago, mark_s90 said:

the real misery is selecting a lens..

How about strap, lens cap, filters, hoods, bags, diopter, adapter, aux VF, etc. ?

[davidmknoble]

On 7/16/2024 at 8:30 AM, BWColor said:

I have three 20 year old light meters, the Gossen Digital-Six and two Sekonics, an incident/spot and incident/flash .  The size and functionality of the six v2 can’t be beat.  I’ve had a nice Contax Aria die and it now acts as a paper weight.  Will parts for mechanical ‘M’ repair outlast electronic parts repair?  I’m asking myself this in that I’ll be selling some ‘M’ bodies, but which ones?  

The electronics may not outlast mechanical parts, but the M6 and MP both function mechanically without the meter.

[elcanada]

The MP light meter with 3 LEDs >*< is really much better than the old M6 2-LED meter display.

The MP flare-free rangefinder is also obviously better than the old M6 rangefinder, which typically flares out.

You may or may not like the MP rewind knob, but there are cheap aftermarket accessories you can add on if you need rapid rewinding.

There are no important MP variations. The earliest have the old M6 back door, but the later ones work the same, just a slightly different look. Some MPs have different body leatherette -- also easy to customize if you want.

 

I'd chose the MP over the old M6 any day. It's got better key features (lightmetering and rangefinder) and a silver chrome MP sells for about $500-700 more than an old M6.

 

The M6 re-issue is in fact an MP with a different exterior and the angled rapid rewind crank.

[F456]

On 7/15/2024 at 7:42 PM, colint544 said:

I also like the M5. Alan Starkie did a CLA on mine a couple of years ago. I'd sent him it because the battery contact had snapped off. He repurposed a battery chamber from an old Leica SL.

He told me that the M5 is essentially, and I'm quoting him here, 'an M4 in a fat suit', and it didn't trouble him to work on it. Aside from the battery contact, my M5 has never given any trouble in the 11 years I've had it.

Colin, Alan told me a few months ago that he doesn't accept M5s anymore. Unless perhaps you have come to an arrangement of course.

 

[colint544]

20 hours ago, F456 said:

Colin, Alan told me a few months ago that he doesn't accept M5s anymore. Unless perhaps you have come to an arrangement of course.

 

Ah, that's a shame. He accepted mine because he reckoned he could repair the broken battery contact. Which he did. But he ended up doing other work whilst the camera was with him. He re-silvered the lower edge of the viewfinder window, gave the camera a general service, and even replaced the missing bumpers on the back door.

He struck me as a man with a passion for the work he does, keeping these old cameras going. His emails were incredibly informative. Thinking about it, it might have been three or four years ago he did this work. Possibly he's more snowed under now, or just hasn't the time.

[colint544]

48 minutes ago, mark_s90 said:

SOunds more like  man who KNOWS what hes doing, and when he had the camera taken apart he saw things that needed to be done, that could be done, and did them. Good sounding fella.  

Its like how with some people who repair Nikon/Canon film cameras, they charge ya 150-200$ just to remve the top plate, so if they pop it open and see other work that needs doing, they let ya know and save you extra fees in the future.

Absolutely. I've just dug into my emails. It was actually SIX years ago Alan repaired my M5. Time certainly flies. I hope Alan wouldn't mind me reproducing one of his emails to show the care and trouble he goes to.

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[spydrxx]

The OP hasn't come back with comments, kinda sad, no follow-ups on all the recommendations. I for one like the idea of going with a meterless camera and handheld incident meter. Simply put, one meter reading generally is good for several hours, or an open sky reading and a shade one cover an awful lot. Night shooting, which most people don't do is a different animal, but the OP mentioned flash. A fully mechanical, properly maintained camera seems to have a longer working life to its components than one incorporating electronics...especially if one lives in an intemperate climate. I've gone full circle on this issue...still have 30-40yr old metered bodies (not Leica) which work fine, but in the end when I want to ensure reliability I still choose meterless bodies. Can I use them as "point and shoot", of course, assuming I took an incident reading earlier in similar lighting. And don't forget, films generally have greater exposure tolerances than digital ones. Just my 2 cents.

[Fotoklaus]

No camera is forever. Who knows if there are any repairmen or parts left in 20 years.

 

[WvE]

I'm selling my M10-P for a new MP. I'm sort of done with digital, although I keep my trusty SL2-s 😉  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[elcanada]

The M6 and MP are "forever" cameras (although nothing lasts "forever." Even the pyramids are damaged).

Their light meters are not prone to failure. Leica's official service can work on them and has the necessary replacement parts.
Buy and  use a meterless classic M or a current M-A if you want, and carry around a Sekonic or Gossen or Pentax Digital Spotmeter if that's your wish.  Or buy an M5 (many are) and enjoy its amazing metering. Or get a new M6 reissue or MP -- they are all Leicas, and that means one can expect at least 50 years of use from one, at least, if not more. That should be long enough for anyone.

Edited July 22, 2024 by jaapv
Offensive remark removed

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, elcanada said:

one can expect at least 50 years of use from one

As long time (many decades !) Leica user, if 10 years expecting is long enough, that's what I would do.

Using a lot can "harm" the legendary toughness.

So many things can go wrong while using... from my own experiences.

 

* so having only one M camera is not that good idea

from two onward that is much better !

Recently I dropped one M while travel, and so happy having spare

 

Edited July 22, 2024 by a.noctilux