Official Leica Statement: Leica SL3 Issues

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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10 hours ago, hansvons said:

I've often shot with it using the brilliant 300mm prime and miraculous 1.4x extender for birds, butterflies, and anything that moves quickly. That kind of photography benefits dramatically from the lightweight, intuitive, handheld operation and AF that does what it promises. It can't get better for that kind of wildlife (that combo, BTW, is weather-sealed). Technically speaking, the keeper rate is at 85% and more. The downside is that you look like Daddy taking his little DSLR out on a hike. And, of course, it's much too cheap to be worth considering for proper wildlife shooters.

Olympus is the only other manufacturer besides Leica to offer an actual IP rating on their flagship mirrorless body.

9 hours ago, tom0511 said:

I think the OMD is a cool system and I still own one, but friendly I believe the larger DOF, the higher noise is a compromise.

Lens size of course is great, and IMO the main (and only) reason to go m43 for such use.

If you wanted best AF I would rather use a Canon R3 or Sony A1 or Nikon Z8/Z9.

 

Yes, and I do (A1) but at 20MP the advantages of low resolution cameras like the R3 are really limited. Plus I don’t like large gripped cameras. LRC and DXO deal with the noise so effectively that the advantages of system weight and Olympus/OM’s computational photography make it a much more difficult decision. The 150-400/TC better than any longer than 400mm zoom from the big three. The OM1 sensor is a massive upgrade in noise and DR from the previous generation. No 35mm format zoom lens actually has a DoF advantage over the 150-400 at 400mm (equivalent). For the shorter lengths I’m shooting less and less super thin DoF stuff so m43 becomes an advantage. You get more DoF with a lower ISO than larger formats. That basically negates any sensor size advantages.

I use the resolution of the A1. If I didn’t the OM-1 would be the first choice for me. With the high res shot it’s like two cameras in one almost. Plus the best IBIS in any camera, great lenses at any focal length, pre-capture, etc. And I’m really looking forward to getting my EM1mk3A. I can’t think of anything astro that’ll get close to it. When you consider how small the staggering 75mm 1.8 is.

If I were shooting in the 20-25MP range m43 would be my first choice. Or an M10 classic.

Then again I was out this morning with my SL3 and a few APO Summicrons. Life is good.

Gordon

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[BillCB]

I recognize that internet forums like this (or on just about any subject) tend to attract more complaints than expressions of satisfaction. If something works like it should, we don't write about it.

I have been a photographer for over sixty years and have owned a multitude of cameras. The majority were trouble free, but even my Phase One gear had its occasional problem. With the exception of my first SL3 which gave up on day one, I have had no issues with my M11, M11-P and my SL3, despite all the horror stories I read here. The cameras work perfectly and the APO lenses are extraordinary. 

It would be interesting if Leica could release figures showing the proportion of their cameras that have to be fixed or repaired other than for damage caused by the user. I suspect they're actually pretty good though rather slow.

 

 

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, BillCB said:

It would be interesting if Leica could release figures showing the proportion of their cameras that have to be fixed or repaired other than for damage caused by the user. I suspect they're actually pretty good though rather slow.

A hardware fix is a very different matter compared to a software fix. Sample variation is a thing, we just accept there could be lemons when producing hardware, be it Leica, Canon or Apple, they all have a few duds that came out like that out of the factory. 
But bugs like the M11 freeze or the SL3 overwriting files, that’s a different matter. That’s Leica doing a shitty job. 

[jaapv]

The problem is not so much that there are bugs in the software; bug-free software is the rarest of things, but the response time to fix matters and the communication are in question here. 

[nonoketchup]

On 7/11/2024 at 6:54 AM, jonoslack said:

Hi There 

This is quite straightforward - the images were absolutely there - viewable - on the cards (on both cards if you had one as backup to the other or one DNG one JPG).

 

All present and correct . . . . . . . . then you pull out the battery . . . . . .

If you had taken the cards out after pulling the battery the images would have been there to read on your computer as well

then you switch on the camera and carry on shooting. the images which were already there are overwritten - a timeline might be:

Switch on the camera

take pictures

0001

0002

0003

0004 

look at them

pull out the battery

turn on the camera and shoot 2 shots

0001 will be over written

0002 will be overwritten

0003 and 0004 will still be the same as they were.

The camera goes back to the number when it was last switched on and starts overwriting from there

If you turn off the camera at any point and then turn it on again it goes back to the correct place - so, in the above case - to carry on

Turn off camera

Turn on the camera and shoot 2 shots

0005

0006

So that

0001 and 0002 were overwritten

0003 and 0004 are still as they were (and unique)

0005 and 0006 are as they are

Of course I can't guarantee that is the case in every case, but I'm pretty certain it is.

I hope this clarifies! 

I saw the images prior to a battery pulled and after.
 

The images could still be viewed any time throughout the wedding. So basically the files were supposedly lost… but unknowingly lost but also no indication it was lost? Hope that makes sense.

I know everyone has their “well simply don’t do this or do that,” but unless this happened to you, it’s kind of a wildcard. Once again, warning - don’t use the camera. 

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The problem is not so much that there are bugs in the software; bug-free software is the rarest of things, but the response time to fix matters and the communication are in question here. 

Not really. While bug free software doesn’t really exist in real life, there’s different type of bugs. A bug of this magnitude should have been caught before release, period. A typo in the menu system is also a bug, but nobody cares about it if it’s fixed one year later

[jaapv]

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Real life: irrespective of magnitude, not all bugs are caught, especially if they occur at a specific situation that does not occur all too often. The point is: how is the situation handled, after the bug has manifested itself?

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Real life: irrespective of magnitude, not all bugs are caught, especially if they occur at a specific situation that does not occur all too often. The point is: how is the situation handled, after the bug has manifested itself?

Yeah, the way the situation has been handled by Leica is another shitshow

[Smogg]

Previously, digital cameras developed mainly due to improvements in hardware. Now the competition is largely shifting to the area of software technology and the use of artificial intelligence. We all know that Leica has always been good and quite reliable in the hardware area, but lagged behind in other areas. I hope that in the near future the company will make sufficient efforts to reduce the backlog and sharpen programming skills. Otherwise, the backlog will become hopeless and the company will be put up for sale, like Hasselblad.

[Indeepthought]

11 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Previously, digital cameras developed mainly due to improvements in hardware. Now the competition is largely shifting to the area of software technology and the use of artificial intelligence. We all know that Leica has always been good and quite reliable in the hardware area, but lagged behind in other areas. I hope that in the near future the company will make sufficient efforts to reduce the backlog and sharpen programming skills. Otherwise, the backlog will become hopeless and the company will be put up for sale, like Hasselblad.

Leica get away with these major issues simply because devotees refuse to see the light..(no pun intended)…

[satijntje]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Smogg:

 We all know that Leica has always been good and quite reliable in the hardware area, but lagged behind in other areas.

I can only disagree here.
M8: hardware problem with IR
M9: hardware problem with sensor corrosion.

I would not be surprised if the M11 problem is hardware related, but this is my personal opinion.

[Smogg]

13 minutes ago, satijntje said:

I can only disagree here.
M8: hardware problem with IR
M9: hardware problem with sensor corrosion.

I would not be surprised if the M11 problem is hardware related, but this is my personal opinion.

The corrosion of the sensor was impossible to predict, this cannot be blamed on the company

[Smogg]

29 minutes ago, Indeepthought said:

Leica get away with these major issues simply because devotees refuse to see the light..(no pun intended)…

I cannot be classified as a blind follower of any brand. For example, I didn't buy the SL3, I think the X2D is better for my purposes, so I bought it. I also have an A7RV and GFX100s. I cursed a lot on the forum on the M11, of which I had 2 at the time. However, I do know that Leica is making a herculean effort to fix the firmware now, and for that I respect the company. And I also want these efforts to lead to the creation of a mature IT department within Leica.

[Indeepthought]

4 minutes ago, Smogg said:

The corrosion of the sensor was impossible to predict, this cannot be blamed on the company

That’s passing the buck! admittedly recalls and issues are hard to predict, but it happened and Leica squirmed like crazy then finally said ‘hands up’..

[Smogg]

4 minutes ago, Indeepthought said:

That’s passing the buck! admittedly recalls and issues are hard to predict, but it happened and Leica squirmed like crazy then finally said ‘hands up’..

I agree that it was not a pretty story. But what is the purpose of raising it now? The company has current problems and is trying to solve them. Or did you try to return the camera and were refused to return the camera and are you trying to get justice in this way?

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

bug-free software is the rarest of things

Not in my experience.

[jaapv]

Some of us have an angel sitting on their shoulder. 

[IkarusJohn]

Just now, jaapv said:

Some of us have an angel sitting on their shoulder. 

Now, now, Jaap.  Funny (actually, not so much), and deflecting the point (the intention, I guess).

The reality of firmware/software is that it does the job it’s supposed to do.  Being a Mac user for over 20 years, firmware bugs on my Mac have never impacted on what I do.  Sure, I get “bug fixes”, but I have never had a computer which failed to do what it said on the tin.  Actually, the ONLY digital products which have consistently had electronic failures have been my Leicas - bricked SL(601), bricked M10-D, bricked M60 and corroded sensor cover glass on my M9 and Monochrom.

The only Leica I have had not to fail is my M-A.

Saying “bug free software is the rarest of things” suggests that faulty products are something we should accept.  Leica equipment is very expensive - they must provide some benefit beyond brand bragging rights, and reliability isn’t too much to ask when cheaper products seem to achieve it.  Simply working out of the box shouldn’t be a problem Leica is still unable to fix two years after the release of its flagship camera.

Compared to most computers, what is required of an electronic camera is relatively modest.  Reliably taking photographs at the selected exposure settings (ie, not over-exposed), storing them (not corrupted or over-written and playing nice with SD cards) and not crashing is pretty much core to a digital camera.

That shouldn’t be rare, but keep making excuses if that works for you.

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[Indeepthought]

56 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I agree that it was not a pretty story. But what is the purpose of raising it now? The company has current problems and is trying to solve them. Or did you try to return the camera and were refused to return the camera and are you trying to get justice in this way?

I think that the facts are easily understood. History has to be remembered not hidden under a rug.. Leica presume to be a premium company! ~~

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Not in my experience.

Bug free software does not exist. The significance of bugs varies a lot.

I do not remember a commercial product where the bugs prevented me from using it effectively. That includes all Leica cameras.