Exposure Compensation on Thumbwheel -- accidental nudge?

[lct]

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You can change aperture, shutter speed or both as you like within the iso limits you assigned the camera.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, crons said:

F8, 1/250 and auto ISO.

As you move your camera around and things in front of you are dark and bright what happens to the picture?

Auto ISO keeps the picture equally bright in the viewfinder. If you need to protect highlights, apply negative EC, which causes the ISO to change and not the exposure (a good thing).

[kiwidad]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:37 AM, Datsch said:

I would like to ask any M11 users who have exposure comp set on their thumbwheel -- does it get nudged by mistake, eg putting camera in and out of bag?

If it does get adjusted, then the EV value is displayed in the OVF for 0.5s but that sounds rather easy to miss, especially if the camera is not held up to your eye at the time.

I know that exp comp will be shown on the back screen, but sometimes people have that switched off and I am specifically asking because it looks like the M11-D will have full time exposure comp on the thumbwheel and I'd like to know if that would be a pain? (Especially for someone like me who never uses it ...)

Thanks,

I have never had the problem but if you select anything else for the wheel in the menu and then press and hold it till a menu pops up, choose exposure compensation and the you have to click the thumb in to allow rotation to set it and click again to lock the setting in. Make it nearly impossible to accidentally rotate it and change compensation

[crons]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Auto ISO keeps the picture equally bright in the viewfinder

I shoot a rangefinder. I'm not talking about a viewfinder. I see reality which isnt affected by anytning i do wifh the camera. It doesn't change. I'm talking about the brightness or darkness of image you're taking. 

 

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

If you need to protect highlights, apply negative EC, which causes the ISO to change and not the exposure (a good thing)

You're just guessing when you do that.

How about what I do now which causes me not to do anything at all? Because I chose the exposure and not the camera.

You yourself are proving me correct. The reason you need to fight the camera with an EC dial. Just like the guy next to you pushing the brake pedal while you're driving.  Either you drive or I drive but we can't both be driving the same car at the same time.

Your exposure can vary wildly by tilting your camera a bit this way or that way if you leave it on Auto iso.

But like I said. If it works for you then why are we discussing this? I don't get it. Do what works for you. 

I set my exposure myself. Shutter speed. Aperture. And ISO. This is what I want here and now and my camera obeys regardless of where I point it. I don't need to fight with an EC dial. And that's me. You do you. 

Edited June 22, 2024 by crons

[marchyman]

23 hours ago, crons said:

Your exposure can vary wildly by tilting your camera a bit this way or that way if you leave it on Auto iso.

I don't understand.  Your exposure (measured by the lightness/darkness of the taken image) can vary wildly by tilting your camera a bit this way or that way with a fixed ISO, too.

Auto ISO is a tool.  Like all tools it has its use.  There are also times where its use would be contra indicated.   With practice and experience a photographer can learn when auto ISO might fit.

I do not use auto ISO often, but I'm glad it's there when I feel it is the proper tool for the situation.

[crons]

1 hour ago, marchyman said:

Your exposure (measured by the lightness/darkness of the taken image) can vary wildly by tilting your camera a bit this way or that way with a fixed ISO, too.

No. I'm talking about the resulting image and the camera exposing things on its own. 

If you set your exposure manually it is set no matter where you point the camera.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

On auto your photo will go darker when you don't want it to go darker. It is doing this on its own. As soon as it sees something bright it'll darken the photo. Well i don't want that. I want my exposure to stay the same. If I need to make it brighter or darker then I can make that decision. 

If I have to have this conversation with someone it probably means they don't understand exposure. You probably think every photo has to have that dot in the middle in the viewfinder and that means properly exposed. 

F8, 1/250, ISO400 is set no matter where you point the camera. The exposure SETTINGS aren't going to jump around on their own. Which is what happens on Auto. If your brightness and darkness are jumping around on their own then you have something set to auto. 

You guys do have cameras right? 

Exposure compensation is something you can skip if you just set your settings manually and you understand exposure. Its a waste of time. Once you know exposure you can set it and mostly forget it. Then you'll have a consistent exposure all day long without hardly ever touching anything. 

Auto iso is a tool and I've said about maybe 10 times that if it works for you then have at it. I also said auto is what I used when I shot other cameras. I'm not sure what we are talking about at this point. 

Edited June 23, 2024 by crons

[maitoparta]

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First thing to do is to disable the exposure compensation ring. The ring messes exposures accidentally. The second thing to do is learn use full manual mode. Like people have said, then you are the in control of the picture, and you will get consistent results. If you need to make a consistent set of pictures easily, then white balance must be set manually too.

Some argued aperture mode is more easy. It is not. You need to spend more time in post fixing the exposures and aperture mode can overexpose badly or underexpose.

Your left hand is a good grey card. Meter the exposure of your left hand and you are good to go quick in most situations. Also you can learn those sunny day f8/500 rules, and just check how to sky is and dial the exposures right in.

Doing things manually help you to pay attention to the light, the essence of photography, and it helps you to make the evaluation of exposure yourself, taking the lottery of automated exposure out of the equation.

Aperture mode is bad mode. It is not easy nor good.

[SrMi]

44 minutes ago, crons said:

If you set your exposure manually it is set no matter where you point the camera.

I thought we were discussing various automatic modes, with and without Auto-ISO.

Manual vs automatic is a different type of discussion. In a high-contrast scene, automatic measurement can vary the image's brightness if you change the frame unless you lock the exposure.

There is a place and time for manual and automatic modes. I believe that you are missing out if you dogmatically exclude one of those modes.

[Deejaybeephoto]

On 6/10/2024 at 11:44 AM, THEME said:

A is easy and helpful. M for street shooting or other faster exposure requirements.

A for street with auto ISO for me (with auto ISO parameters to suit).

[Datsch]

BTW My OP question was fully answered back on post #27 but I am enjoying the general discussion about exposure ...

😃

[crons]

13 hours ago, SrMi said:

There is a place and time for manual and automatic modes. I believe that you are missing out if you dogmatically exclude one of those modes.

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. 

[crons]

13 hours ago, Deejaybeephoto said:

A for street with auto ISO for me (with auto ISO parameters to suit).

I used to shoot my fuji like that. And when I started shooting leica also. I learned a lot of tricks when I was doing that to try to fight the camera. Like half press and recompose or ride the exposure compensation wheel. 

My life is a lot more simple now. 

Edited June 24, 2024 by crons

[lct]

I started auto iso M mode on Nikon D70 in 2004 or something and supported it for M240 as beta tester. It is my most used exposure mode now. Works fine on mirrorless (Sony, Fuji, Sigma, etc.) as well as RF cameras (M240, M11). Best invention since sliced bread to me 😉 YMMV.

[ianforber]

21 hours ago, maitoparta said:

First thing to do is to disable the exposure compensation ring. The ring messes exposures accidentally. The second thing to do is learn use full manual mode. Like people have said, then you are the in control of the picture, and you will get consistent results. If you need to make a consistent set of pictures easily, then white balance must be set manually too.

Some argued aperture mode is more easy. It is not. You need to spend more time in post fixing the exposures and aperture mode can overexpose badly or underexpose.

Your left hand is a good grey card. Meter the exposure of your left hand and you are good to go quick in most situations. Also you can learn those sunny day f8/500 rules, and just check how to sky is and dial the exposures right in.

Doing things manually help you to pay attention to the light, the essence of photography, and it helps you to make the evaluation of exposure yourself, taking the lottery of automated exposure out of the equation.

Aperture mode is bad mode. It is not easy nor good.

I think people should be able to use whatever mode they want, regardless of whether it’s considered bad or good by someone else. I rarely shoot fully manual, mostly aperture priority with auto ISO and, sometimes manual aperture and shutter but with auto ISO. I prefer aperture priority with auto-ISO because it lets me concentrate on the criteria most important to me - the aperture.

I suspect metering mode is important in this discussion. I had always used centre weighting in all my cameras since the 1980s. That is why I was used to meter, focus and recompose. This worked for years although I migrated to aperture priority to make it easier for me regardless of whether using film or digital  

Eventually I worked up the courage to use multifield mode (and more recently highlight weighted mode). They mean that moving the camera rarely involves dramatic changes in exposure values - press and recompose is far less useful or relevant. In turn, that means auto-ISO is, for me, the better option. The exposure consistency is maintained with the same aperture and shutter speed by the camera using auto-ISO and that ISO value doesn’t change dramatically one shot to another because the metering value is consistent (yes, I know there is/was a bug that caused wild swings in exposure). I very rarely use the exposure compensation wheel, usually to dial down the exposure value when I know I want deep shadows. YMMV

[maitoparta]

19 hours ago, ianforber said:

I think people should be able to use whatever mode they want, regardless of whether it’s considered bad or good by someone else. I rarely shoot fully manual, mostly aperture priority with auto ISO and, sometimes manual aperture and shutter but with auto ISO. I prefer aperture priority with auto-ISO because it lets me concentrate on the criteria most important to me - the aperture.

I suspect metering mode is important in this discussion. I had always used centre weighting in all my cameras since the 1980s. That is why I was used to meter, focus and recompose. This worked for years although I migrated to aperture priority to make it easier for me regardless of whether using film or digital  

Eventually I worked up the courage to use multifield mode (and more recently highlight weighted mode). They mean that moving the camera rarely involves dramatic changes in exposure values - press and recompose is far less useful or relevant. In turn, that means auto-ISO is, for me, the better option. The exposure consistency is maintained with the same aperture and shutter speed by the camera using auto-ISO and that ISO value doesn’t change dramatically one shot to another because the metering value is consistent (yes, I know there is/was a bug that caused wild swings in exposure). I very rarely use the exposure compensation wheel, usually to dial down the exposure value when I know I want deep shadows. YMMV

It goes without saying people can use whatever they want. There is no need for disclaimers on that. It is obvious. It does not even have to mentioned, it is so obvious.

[ianforber]

1 hour ago, maitoparta said:

It goes without saying people can use whatever they want. There is no need for disclaimers on that. It is obvious. It does not even have to mentioned, it is so obvious.

Apologies if I misinterpreted the final sentence of the post I initially quoted. The problem with these discussions is that so many people move from  saying something along the lines of “I don’t understand why anyone would use that mode” into saying something that makes others think they are doing something wrong or not a proper photographer for doing it they way they want. As you say, we’re all free to use whatever mode we want without feeling that we are less of a photographer for doing so. 

[vkdev]

How do I disable the thumbwheel? When the camera hangs on the neck it touches the clothes. When the camera is turned on, the wheel rotates and changes settings. This happens all the time. I get +3 or -3 exposure at any given time. I tried pressing the wheel and changing the setting. But the disk still works. Maybe I just need a piece of duct tape.

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[lct]

Main menu page3: Customize Control> Customize Wheel: No function

Happy snaps 🙂

 

[vkdev]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Main menu page3: Customize Control> Customize Wheel: No function

Happy snaps 🙂

 

oh thank you! you saved my nerve cells. I only tried the setting by holding the button. my bad

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[LPettigrew]

Personally I've never had this issue. But, I guess, it may happen.

The M is about intent, not safety nets. If you nudge the dial, that’s on you, not the camera. This is a part of how it trains the owner to be attentive and mindful, or use something else.