SL3-Some impressions about the body vs SL2-S

[Photoworks]

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On 6/7/2024 at 12:46 PM, Mikko Kankainen said:

Startup time, working with camera (menus etc), shutting down camera, most clearly playback. It freezes like for 2 seconds when I press play sometimes and scrolling is slower. This becomes clear when you work in some event and take many hunrends of photos. And it becomes even more clear when you have a lot of photos in your card. And writing to card is slower even if I use M-dng. It writes longer (led blink) vs Sl2-s. Using Cf and SD. Fast SD.

At least my SL3 usually reboots when I turn it on after it's closed. So it takes maybe 5-8 sec camera to turn on. Never with SL2 lineup. But this is a firmware thing or my unit has some issues, different memory card etc. But I have tried many cards.

that is my experience too, it needs some optimization in firmware.

Play images is sooo slow... with fastest cards!

I think the initial screen comes up quickly, but it is a little bit like Windows, it still loads other stuff before it is ready.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Well, I suppose this thread just proves, not everyone wanted a smaller SL.   I remember all the *it’s too big* threads on the SL2. *Boat anchor* they all cried. Haha.

I will say, I really like the improved balance of the SL3. Pushing the grip in has made it much better for extended shooting, for me. The buttons are on the correct side, finally. A play button should always be where your thumb cam reach it on a mirrorless camera. I’m not seeing the SL3 as less premium, although the new knob is a bit ugly, and currently pointless. I really like the flip screen. So for IQ and build, my most important things, I’m very pleased. I’ve already had it out in foul weather with zero worries or issues.

It does seem though that Leica and Hasselblad are talking or stealing from each other. let’s see… Size and weight. Same. Flappy screen? Same. EVF? Same (with advantage to the X2D). Pop out battery? Same. Weird pointless on/off button with no way of knowing if it’s in sleep? Same. Aluminium unibody design? Same. Little top LCD? Same (But again, small win to the Hasselblad) Fully touch integrated menus? Same. Icon driven Home Screen? Same. I think I see a trend here.   Maybe Leica should just buy Hasselblad and be done with it?

The firmware however?? I’d call it 0.8 at best. I put in a fast CFE Sandisk card and formatted in camera. SL3 was fast, then laggy, then fast again. Not enough to be an issue but enough to notice. Currently using Lear CFE cards and somehow seems to be less problematic. Sandisk cards fine every other camera I own.

New dial? Currrently a waste of space. None of the three options suit me. Maybe ISO but if you twist too far you’re forced to move to another button to switch to AUTO ISO, or touch the shutter. Really gets in the way. Why can’t we just dial from ISO 50 to AUTO without another dial being used? And why does it behave differently than if you assign ISO to a custom button? And they removed the right rear click wheel customisation, where I loved having ISO, so we lost a custom button. Grrr.

Home screen Leicons. Why bother if you’re not going to give us all the customisation options? 11 choices for 8 buttons? And one of those is also already on another dial, which you can’t change (shooting mode). So two options? Useless. Needs to have every option available to the custom buttons. The active screen icons are nice though. I like them a lot. Just wish I could remove the ones I don’t need.

It seems to me that every lens AF behaves slightly differently. In AFS some lenses feel like they get PDAF and some feel like they’re still using CDAF. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how it feels. And no matter what they do in the future the SL3 will always be spoken about with this level of AF, just like the M11 will always be the freezing camera. Leica don’t seem to give hoot about their reputation.

One final thing. EFCS!!!! For God’s sake Leica. Give us EFCS! EFCS would eliminate shutter shock and also remove the need to shoot in electronic shutter and therefore stop the whining about the sensor readout speed. Except the video guys who should just get a S5IIX and be done with it.

Despite the beta firmware, I really like the SL3. More as I use it more. I already got my second body and I’m switching out to it as my main 24x36 system. I like how the camera gives me staggering IQ and excellent DR. I do appreciate Leicas menus over almost everyone else’s. I like that with the APO SL Summicrons the IQ is best in class. I love Leica’s tweaking of this sensor. DR is fantastic. Noise reduction isn’t agressive and reds are the best I’ve seen in a small format sensor. I like that the changes from the SL2 are mostly considered and they didn’t throw out the good stuff like the joystick (which needs to work diagonally please) and the EF and the nice easy to find buttons. I like the F CFE cards upgrade. Next time one CFE and internal memory thanks (why not steal something else from Hasselblad? I’m joking. Hasselblad stole it from Leica. The T was the first).

I’m also liking what Sigma is doing with lens options. Now we have most of the lenses. The 14-24 and 100-400 even got Leicafied. I’m really liking the shared design of the Penny/Leica 50mm 1.8/2. For a long time I was tempted by the lens choices of a particular brand starting with S. But not so much anymore. We even got a great super Tele that works with TC’s. A 50mm 1.2. And some weird shit. 1.4 fisheye anyone? But at least now there’s something for everyone. I’m keeping a separate wildlife/birds kit based on an A1. But for casual wildlife the L mount has what it needs. And by some miracle Profoto and Godoy now make flash triggers….

Once they fix the firmware the SL3 will, for me, be the best SL yet.

Gordon

[Mikko Kankainen]

Very good points!

I cant help feeling that there is this final 10% of know how missing both in design and FW. Like video. They add some features that sound like pro features but the final result is just weird.  Same with ISO dial, how can you mess so simple feature so bad. Or this on/off switch. Did users have complain about the older switch that was faster and just better? Or the new UI. It's a mess (how I see it). No favorites, less room to make it look the way I like. Top LCD. HUGE F and tiny mode indicator (A,M..). Just give me aperture number and take the giant F away. Now it's hard to see what mode you are in but you can see that F is F. It could be a sticker F 😀. Dim LED to show writing to cards, why. 

Indeed S5iix for video work and forget SL3 thats how I deal my video needs. Just a better product overall. Also great for stills. And cheap. And yes thanks to Sigma and Pana. 1.8 primes are superb.

Edit. Picked up Canon 1dx3 from a bag to a gig and remembered how this camera is a proof that photographers have designed some features in it. Small things. Voice memo. Or one can press ISO and you can see the clock inside OVF so it's not rude to watch wristwatch in front of customer. I would like to see this kind of thinking. And also make existing features work and not laggy.

Edited June 10, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[tom0511]

I agree with many points.

Though having used the SL3 now for some more days I got used to the size, I even like the new on/off switch (eventhough I request a way to see if its in sleep or off). The camera wakes up quite instant and with the new switch I feel I set it to sleep more often. So it will help with battery life. With the white color its at least better than the Hassy version which doesnt indicate anything.

For some reason to my eye I also prefer the letters of the top display and inside viewfinder. I do like the new red A (small thing)of AISO, and I have started to use the left wheel instead of using Auto-Iso all the time.

So its kind of growing on me. It doesnt feel as organic like my Canon R3 where buttons fall into the hand and everything feels instant. But then its also a slimmer and simpler menue system of the SL-series which I prefer to other offerings.

 

 

[hamey]

As I have Mentioned before in a another post, Have played with the SL3, and yes it has some good points, however I still prefer my SL2-s.

I find my SL2-s beautiful to hold, very solid and reassuring in it's operation, and being crafted from a solid ALUMINIUM block makes the difference in feel and It's acoustics.

Unlike the SL3, It's made of Magnesium, yes a little lighter and smaller but, it's not that important to me, I have always been comfortable with heavy cameras.

Cheers.

 

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

 I have started to use the left wheel instead of using Auto-Iso all the time.

I don't have the SL3 - waiting for a SL3-S - but I think this is how I would use the left dial even if they don't rationalise how to set Auto ISO. With the SL2-S, I set A-mode or S-mode alongside Auto ISO, then control exposure with Exposure Compensation on the right thumb dial. With the new layout, I would use manual ISO more, giving better control over exposure (because I wouldn't automatically be pushed to the slowest speed or widest aperture). 

Edited June 10, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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9 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I don't have the SL3 - waiting for a SL3-S - but I think this is how I would use the left dial even if they don't rationalise how to set Auto ISO. With the SL2-S, I set A-mode or S-mode alongside Auto ISO, then control exposure with Exposure Compensation on the right thumb dial. With the new layout, I would use manual ISO more, giving better control over exposure (because I wouldn't automatically be pushed to the slowest speed or widest aperture). 

The problem is that if you do use the new dial you can’t *just* use manual ISO. As soon as you turn the dial below 50 you have to go through the process of choosing between manual and auto. You’re locked out of using the camera until you make a chioce and you make that choice using a different button/dial than the new left dial.

I use manual ISO a lot but now I’m finding if I accidentally turn one or two clicks too far I’m not able to use the damn camera for a secon or two while I find the joystick or tap the shutter button and then go back to that dial. AArrrrgggghhh! It’s a usability nightmare. And after a few months I still hate it.

At least if I waste one of my custom buttons it behaves like the SL2. So now I’m two buttons down on the older camera.

This, and the lack of EFCS are my two biggest gripes with the SL3, by a huge margin.

Gordon

[trickness]

The first thing I said when I had the SL3 in my hands was “this feels like a Japanese made camera” - and by that I meant the texture, balance, size, the excess of dials and buttons and tilt screen. Creeping (running?) away from the minimal aesthetic of the 601, probably in order to compete with cameras that cost far less and have superior technology (Sony).

None of the above was what attracted me to the 601 & SL2 in the first place, so I’m sitting this iteration out. I understand completely why this new version would appeal to many people. I think it was quite an intentional effort on Leica’s part to make it easier for aspirational buyers to switch from other brands, and I certainly hope it’s successful for them.

but I do think the camera has lost something (soul?) in the process. 

 

[eab]

15 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The problem is that if you do use the new dial you can’t *just* use manual ISO. As soon as you turn the dial below 50 you have to go through the process of choosing between manual and auto. You’re locked out of using the camera until you make a chioce and you make that choice using a different button/dial than the new left dial.

I use manual ISO a lot but now I’m finding if I accidentally turn one or two clicks too far I’m not able to use the damn camera for a secon or two while I find the joystick or tap the shutter button and then go back to that dial. AArrrrgggghhh! It’s a usability nightmare. And after a few months I still hate it.

At least if I waste one of my custom buttons it behaves like the SL2. So now I’m two buttons down on the older camera.

This, and the lack of EFCS are my two biggest gripes with the SL3, by a huge margin.

Gordon

So I was trying to understand what the issue with Manual ISO is per your post.  I have found on my camera, if you turn the dial below 50, a message is shown on the rear screen and EVF "fix ISO".  Once the message goes away the ISO dial allows you to increase the ISO as you would expect.  You don't have to use another button, just wait for the message to disappear.  I don't like the fact that you have to wait, but you don't have to touch any other button or dial.  Just thought I would mention it.  

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 minutes ago, eab said:

So I was trying to understand what the issue with Manual ISO is per your post.  I have found on my camera, if you turn the dial below 50, a message is shown on the rear screen and EVF "fix ISO".  Once the message goes away the ISO dial allows you to increase the ISO as you would expect.  You don't have to use another button, just wait for the message to disappear.  I don't like the fact that you have to wait, but you don't have to touch any other button or dial.  Just thought I would mention it.  

Yep. You can wait. You’re just locked out of your camera for several seconds, if you wait. Quicker to just touch the shutter button. But the shot is still lost. SL2 doesn’t have this stupid behaviour. On the SL2 go below 50 to auto ISO. And back again the same way. 

If you want auto ISO you need to switch to go below ISO 50 and then use a dial or joystick to switch. Again. You’ve lost the shot.

Can’t think of anything worse than a camera that won’t let you take a photo like this.

Gordon.

[eab]

I really don’t understand how or why they ended up implementing it this way, nor do I understand what “fix iso” means.  I agree with you, you should be able to go past 50 ( does it even make sense to have iso 50?) directly to Auto and then back around.  

I guess the good news is that this can definitely be remedied in firmware.

[la1402]

7 hours ago, trickness said:

The first thing I said when I had the SL3 in my hands was “this feels like a Japanese made camera” - and by that I meant the texture, balance, size, the excess of dials and buttons and tilt screen. Creeping (running?) away from the minimal aesthetic of the 601, probably in order to compete with cameras that cost far less and have superior technology (Sony).

None of the above was what attracted me to the 601 & SL2 in the first place, so I’m sitting this iteration out. I understand completely why this new version would appeal to many people. I think it was quite an intentional effort on Leica’s part to make it easier for aspirational buyers to switch from other brands, and I certainly hope it’s successful for them.

but I do think the camera has lost something (soul?) in the process. 

 

If I want “Soul”, I take the M.

I think the SL3 strikes a nice balance between uniqueness and competitiveness. 

[trickness]

25 minutes ago, la1402 said:

If I want “Soul”, I take the M.

I think the SL3 strikes a nice balance between uniqueness and competitiveness. 

My post was about the differences between the previous SL bodies and the SL3, not an entirely different camera system.

I own a film MP. It’s a cliché that the M’s have a monopoly on “soul”. I’ve connected with the SL2 more than any other camera I’ve used. And the SL3 is the least unique SL body out of the 3 versions Leica has released, imho. 
 

If you’re happy with yours, fantastic! Enjoy. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

For me, the SL3 is the SL I have felt most connected too. I’m not saying anyone else is wrong. Just that cameras are a personal choice. Choice is good. The SL2 is still a great camera. More so now you can just run the high ISO files through DXO or Lightroom. And it’s mature.

I guess, for ne it’s partly because the SL3 feels so close to the X2D. Basically if the X2D and SL2 hooked up you’d get a SL3.

For me the SL3 is a firmware away from being the best 24x36 camera ever. I completely understand that others don’t see it that way. The flippy screen does *ruin* the sleek look of the camera. But since I’ve used it a hundred times I guess I must like it…. If they put profiles on the ugly new dial and gave me back the rear click wheel as a customisable function I’d already be happy as a pig in poop.

I still miss the 4 button rear layout of the SL601.

Gordon

[V23]

On 6/6/2024 at 3:14 AM, MediaFotografie said:

no, sadly, that's not possible and very annoying 

What features can not be used with the older battery in SL3?

[tom0511]

Am 11.6.2024 um 13:03 schrieb trickness:

The first thing I said when I had the SL3 in my hands was “this feels like a Japanese made camera” - and by that I meant the texture, balance, size, the excess of dials and buttons and tilt screen. Creeping (running?) away from the minimal aesthetic of the 601, probably in order to compete with cameras that cost far less and have superior technology (Sony).

None of the above was what attracted me to the 601 & SL2 in the first place, so I’m sitting this iteration out. I understand completely why this new version would appeal to many people. I think it was quite an intentional effort on Leica’s part to make it easier for aspirational buyers to switch from other brands, and I certainly hope it’s successful for them.

but I do think the camera has lost something (soul?) in the process. 

 

I had a little bit this feeling as well, but not as strong as you. For me it still feels better and "slicker" UI than my Canon for example.

I also got used to it quite quickly. Still I prefered the size and feel of the SL2, but I also appreciate the new display and I do like the new on/off switch. I set the camera much more often to sleep now and safe battery this way. After some use of the SL3 I really like it now.

Edited June 20, 2024 by tom0511