I'm obsessed with the 50 Summilux ASPH bokeh at wide open. What 35 might give me something similar?

[hellobrandonscott]

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Basically the title. I'm wanting a 35 M lens and have been obsessed with the bokeh I get from the 50 Lux (11891) wide open and would love something with a similar vibe. I owned the SR reissue for couple weeks and ended up returning it, the coma and glow was just too much of a commitment, but I still want to use 1.4.

1. The two FLEs are the strongest candidates, specifically v1 because I prefer the screw on hood.

2. I feel like I won't enjoy the 35 Summilux v2 if I didn't like the SR reissue. 

3. The Pre-FLE's back focusing issue might be a struggle since I want to use this at 1.4 and also interchangeably with film and digital Leicas. 

Maybe there's nothing like the 50's bokeh character, but just thought I'd ask

Here's a photo I took with the 50 Lux that really shows what I'm talking about. The swirly chaos is so beautiful.

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[evikne]

I think the 35 FLE is the closest you'll get from a Leica lens. It renders pretty similar to the 50 Lux ASPH. 

I probably love even more the bokeh from the Voigtländer Nokton 35/1.2 ASPH, but I've restricted myself to only use Leica lenses.

Here you can see a comparison between them:

https://www.jaycassario.com/blog/2016/3/5/battle-of-the-35s-nokton-vs-summilux

[hellobrandonscott]

SOOOOO helpful, thanks bud!

[RexGig0]

I own the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, it being the lens lured me to add the Leica M system, in April 2018. This lens established, for my eyes, what a Leica lens rendering “should” be, not just with background blur, but the character of subjects and other things that are within the focal plane, and in the area of transitions from in-focus to out-of-focus.

I have test-shot a 35mm FLE, a Summilux-M 35mm Version II, and own a Re-Edition Steel Rim Summilux-M 35mm. I would say that NONE of the Leica Summilux lenses have bokeh that matches that of the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. Each of these 35mm Summilux lenses have “busy” bokeh.

As for subjects and other things in the foreground, the transition from in-focus to out-of-focus areas is decently matched by the Summilux-M 35mm FLE. These are both Peter Karbe-era Summilux ASPH lenses, so, similar optical correction design choices appear to have been made. (Peter Karbe sees himself as the leader of the design team, so, does not take take personal credit for being THE designer of individual lenses, except for the APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, which he designed as a labor of love, with permission, as a personal project.) The Summilux-M 35mm FLE has long been on my long-term “add” list, not for its bokeh, but for the character of its in-focus to out-of-focus transitions.

The emphasis on bokeh being relatively recent, not many wide-angle lenses have been designed with bokeh in mind. The Voigtlander APO Lanthar 35mm appears to have been designed with aperture blades intended to help render round “bokeh balls” at specific aperture settings. I have no experience with this lens. It might well be worth looking into this, not because it matches the bokeh of the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, but for its own interpretation of bokeh. 

I also seem to recall the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH having interestingly nice bokeh. Again, not like the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, but, nice, in its own way.

 

Edited June 4, 2024 by RexGig0

[hmzimelka]

The Summilux 35/1.4 FLE ASPH renders nothing like the Summilux 50/1.4 ASPH.... the Summilux 50 ASPH is quite unique here. The Summilux 35mm FLE has a harsher and less "liquidy" rendering.

Crop comparison below...

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Edited June 4, 2024 by hmzimelka

[3D-Kraft.com]

Same recommendation from me, either the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 ASPH (I have the version 1, so cannot speak for the successors) or the Thypoch 35/1.4 ASPH.

[patrickcolpron]

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The only 35 which will give you an incredible bokeh, in my opinion even better than a 50 Lux, is the original Steel Rim with googles which focuses down to .65 meters. The bokeh will be different than a 50 Lux, I don't think you'd get something similar with any 35. 

The trick is to close it down to f/1.7 to avoid the glow, at minimum focusing distance at f/1.7 the centre is as sharp as the 35/APO at f/2.8 and the bokeh, unlike the APO, is not creamy but it is deliciously stunning and unique. 

Granted this lens is not for everyone.

Now this said, the 35/1.2 Voigtlander III intrigues me yet its bokeh seems creamier, because it is so affordable it will most likely be my next lens purchase and the only non Leica lens which seems like a must have for me.

To stay within Leica's lens line up, the original Steel Rim with Goggles with close focusing is a great lens with a unique bokeh or, a 35/2 Summicron V4 can also do the trick at f/2 when close focusing but it will not be as good as an original Steel Rim. I included two recent close focus photos made with an original goggled Steel Rim lens bellow. 

Maybe this is what you are looking for, not like a 50 Lux but certainly not creamy either, both made at f/1.7 

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This image above was made with an M10R 

And this one with the M10-Monochrom 

[Ecar]

I'd say the Summilux ASPH pre-FLE would be the closest. Look for a late, factory-coded copy, which may have been adjusted so as to minimise focus shift. This is a conjecture based on a few reports, but I have one of these and can confirm that I cannot see focus shift in actual use. The AA is another option, with subtle differences - very expensive though.

Otherwise, the CV 35/1.2 v1 is a bit of a beast, but indeed not a bad match in terms of oof rendering. Later versions are sharper but show a somewhat harsher bokeh.

I have no experience with fast 35mm Chinese lenses.

[lct]

FLE v1 at f/2.8. Not my favorite but f/1.4 is more Gaussian.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SZ7kztN/1/DJmnFfqZBPr2Rcn969fr5LzxxztBD8qms3dXD8HKg/X4/i-SZ7kztN-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-N6XhFnZ/0/DDM9VV5j3wFCSVmb3WXrx65hqgTdqtpLGbH8jJRVP/X4/i-N6XhFnZ-X4.jpg

 

[roelandinho]

10 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

The Summilux 35/1.4 FLE ASPH renders nothing like the Summilux 50/1.4 ASPH.... the Summilux 50 ASPH is quite unique here. The Summilux 35mm FLE has a harsher and less "liquidy" rendering.

Crop comparison below...

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The 35 mm Summilux pre-FLE has bokeh rendering that matches the 50 mm Summilux asph much better. It’s weird because apart from the floating group it should have exactly the same optical design as the 35 mm FLE lens, but still the bokeh is different. 

[roelandinho]

9 hours ago, Ecar said:

I'd say the Summilux ASPH pre-FLE would be the closest. 

Yes, indeed. 

[patrickcolpron]

5 minutes ago, roelandinho said:

The 35 mm Summilux pre-FLE has bokeh rendering that matches the 50 mm Summilux asph much better. It’s weird because apart from the floating group it should have exactly the same optical design as the 35 mm FLE lens, but still the bokeh is different. 

I have no doubt about the different rendering, to have that floating group some elements were moved and this for sure changes the nature of the rendering, same with the FLE Nd FLE with close focusing, the later version out of focus rendering is not as pleasant as the version it replaces, this said the FLE's rendering isn't anything special. You make me want to fond a pre-FLE now.   

[hellobrandonscott]

What is the model number of the Pre-FLE in silver? IDK why I'm struggling to find it. 

[Ecar]

11883

[Robert Blanko]

Maybe the Zeiss 35 Distagon could come close. I don't have it anymore, but the bokeh was similarly pleasant than the bokeh of my 50 Summilux, as far as I remember.

[costa43]

No idea on if it marches up well to the 50mm f1.4 asph but if I was in the market for a fast modern 35 then the pre fle is a lens that interests me a lot and the fall off/bokeh seems very nice to me. Since you have an sl2s, the focus shift issues are negated so it could be an interesting option.

[gotium]

Not swirly, but have a look at the 35 Distagon

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

35mm is my fav focal length, and I’ve had the pleasure of shooting with every Leica lens ever made 

My top picks are:

35ASPH pre FLE

35 APO

Bokeh is highly dependent on the distance from camera to subject, and subject to background 

If you’re open to non Leica lenses, I recommend the Nokton 35/1.2 v1 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[RexGig0]

Now that at least two others have mentioned the Distagon, I will voice my support. Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1,4 ZM has what I consider to be more-pleasing, smoother background blur than the Summilux-M 35mm FLE. The Distagon is large, but, it is not heavy, in my opinion, if one is accustomed to the weight of a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH.

[69xchange]

6 hours ago, hellobrandonscott said:

What is the model number of the Pre-FLE in silver? IDK why I'm struggling to find it. 

They are hard to find, not many were made in silver (brass). If you do find one, expect to pay a slight premium for the silver & brass model.