I see many used M11's out there for sale with major camera retailers in the US, would you be

[ianforber]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just now, Al Brown said:

How many shots are we talking about? I do not own the M11, my referral above was for another member who spoke about 3000 shots with 2 cameras in post #36.
What I do own is a couple of M10s and those have clocked around 89K images in two years or so.

I’d need to check but as I delete most of my images and you can’t easily get a shutter count on an M11, I’m not sure I could give an accurate number. The most I’ve ever come back from a days shooting is 400 ( I shoot DNG+JPEG) but it’s usually in single figures, sometimes fewer than 30. Also, I don’t shoot often and take my Q2 out as much as my M11. I’ve probably done more than 3,000 on my M11 but nowhere near 10,000 for example. 

[lct]

Never seen a camera with a so-called bug working fine for 3,000 shots and suddenly (or gradually?) starting to fail for unknown reasons. Did it happen really or is this a new theory to bash the M11 even more?

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, lct said:

Never seen a camera with a so-called bug working fine for 3,000 shots and suddenly (or gradually?) starting to fail for unknown reasons. Did it happen really or is this a new theory to bash the M11 even more?

+1

Any camera I shot with (Nikon D3S, Sony a7rIII, Leica SL2, Hasselblad X1D) has frozen at least once when shooting several thousand images.

[Malabito]

1 hour ago, ianforber said:

I’ve had my M11 since it was launched and I wouldn’t be surprised if I’d shot around the same number of shots as @Al Brown. I’m not sure it’s fair to say that my camera can’t be said to work. I pick it up. I press it’s buttons and it does what I want and expect without any problem. It might not be statistically significant but it works. Have I got this wrong? I am comparing it to a car - some people drive many more miles a year than others but if the person who drives say 10,000 miles a year has a car that motors along without a problem, surely that car works?

You are right, it's not fair given it works for you. But I wouldn't consider it either statistically as a working sample.

Anyway, we won't really know the magnitude of the issue unless Leica comes out with a public statement, which I don't think they will. To me, considering that within the universe of Leica users I know who actually use the camera, most have issues, this release has been a disaster. Hopefully, Leica fixes it..

[Malabito]

52 minutes ago, lct said:

Never seen a camera with a so-called bug working fine for 3,000 shots and suddenly (or gradually?) starting to fail for unknown reasons. Did it happen really or is this a new theory to bash the M11 even more?

It's not a theory; it's based on the assumption that someone who shoots 3k images in 13 months doesn't really push the camera. Of course, you could have shot the 3k in one session and then not use it again.

No one is trying to bash the camera just for the sake of doing it, but if you are happy paying 8K euros for something that doesn't work  as it should, I guess great for you. If users don't complain, Leica won't do a thing. It's a business for them. Fixing something has a cost,  they need to know that not fixing the issue will be an even higher cost at the long end.

[SrMi]

26 minutes ago, Malabito said:

No one is trying to bash the camera just for the sake of doing it, but if you are happy paying 8K euros for something that doesn't work  as it should, I guess great for you.

For many, including me, the camera is working as it should. I am sorry that you have problems with the M11.

[soccerrick10]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I wouldn’t buy an M11 used unless it was an M11P.  I have an M11M without issues and like the extended features, so M11P used?  Yes, with warranty and return agreement.

[lct]

14 hours ago, Malabito said:

[...] if you are happy paying 8K euros for something that doesn't work  as it should, I guess great for you. If users don't complain, Leica won't do a thing [...]

Not sure to follow you. My M11 works perfectly and you did not report issues yourself if i understand well. Are you just coming here to complain about others' problems?

[84bravo]

I've been using an M11 professionally for more than a year. Touch wood, I've had no problems. I don't know the shutter count off hand, but it's gotta be more than 25k considering that I use it daily. YMMV.

Considering the anecdotal reports of problems with the camera, I wouldn't buy a used one.

[Smudgerer]

17 hours ago, Malabito said:

...............Fixing something has a cost,  they need to know that not fixing the issue will be an even higher cost at the long end.

Nicely put.

[JNK100]

On 5/12/2024 at 7:35 AM, Malabito said:

Talking about problems, I rarely have freezing issues, but yesterday I encountered my first corrupted file. At least the JPEG was in the internal memory.

If the internal memory saved the jpg file ok, is it possible the issue is with the SD card and not the camera?

[Malabito]

1 hour ago, JNK100 said:

If the internal memory saved the jpg file ok, is it possible the issue is with the SD card and not the camera?

No, at least not in my case. I use my card in other cameras with absolutely no issues at all.

Also, the camera rarely freezes; it just happens to misbehave very rarely, so I can consider myself lucky.

 

[JNK100]

2 hours ago, Malabito said:

No, at least not in my case. I use my card in other cameras with absolutely no issues at all.

Also, the camera rarely freezes; it just happens to misbehave very rarely, so I can consider myself lucky.

 

There maybe an issue with using the same SD card in different cameras especially if not formatted each time correctly?

Why not test your camera by using only the built-in memory?

Just a thought

Jef

[Malabito]

1 hour ago, JNK100 said:

There maybe an issue with using the same SD card in different cameras especially if not formatted each time correctly?

Why not test your camera by using only the built-in memory?

Just a thought

Jef

Cause the camera has two storages (internal plus sd card) and that how it's supposed to be used. Anything else is just a workaround.

I format my cards in camera every time I put one into it. This I always do. 

Edited May 16, 2024 by Malabito

[JNK100]

11 minutes ago, Malabito said:

Cause the camera has two storages (internal plus sd card) and that how it's supposed to be used. Anything else is just a workaround.

I format my cards in camera every time I put one into it. This I always do. 

I know the M11 has two storage media.

My point was the card may be be corrupted by being used in different cameras systems despite being formatted. If you do not get issues with the built-in memory, it does of course, indicate using a different card would sort things.

What card are you using?

 

 

 

 

[Malabito]

5 hours ago, JNK100 said:

I know the M11 has two storage media.

My point was the card may be be corrupted by being used in different cameras systems despite being formatted. If you do not get issues with the built-in memory, it does of course, indicate using a different card would sort things.

What card are you using?

 

 

 

 

The M11 issues have nothing to do with the card; it's an issue with the camera. Otherwise, how come so many users are complaining about it? Do they all have faulty cards?

They need to fix it, hopefully with a software update and not a hardware recall.

I am using SanDisk Pro and Kingston Canvas React, both UHS-II.

As stated before, I am one of the few lucky ones who rarely have issues. Most of my friends' M11s freeze very often or have corrupt files.

Edited May 16, 2024 by Malabito

[JNK100]

I didn't suggest you had faulty cards; just that the cards may be affected somehow by being used in different cameras.

If you truly want to prove it is a camera-issue ,you would need to use a new approved-card exclusively in the M11 or use the internal memory. You could then see if you still have issues.

Otherwise, it is  just speculation iny view. 

[SJH]

Here we go again with a significant amount of handwringing!! The only real actual evidence is the thread below around the latest firmware release which has 108 posts over 3 months. Everything else is speculation really as for example I went to a Leica event last autumn and there were about 70 odd people there who had an M11, 2 had minor freezing when they bought the camera but no longer - equally they both said they weren't that good with technology and things like connecting their mobile devices/FOTOS. However, it would be wrong really to start quoting this as 'I know there's a major issue' because we a) didn't know the severity b) how many times it actual happened b) whether they'd really caused it themselves. Neither one thought it was a big deal though and just pulled the battery.  

People have had plenty off time to report their freezes over the last 3 months in here and yet let's say all 108 are actual individual freezes of varying degrees, that doesn't exactly seem like the worlds about to end for the M11. Personally though I'm with Leica in that clearly it is an issue (and a serious one) for a very small minority and I think though they're beginning to home in on the final issues with the release that's coming up. My M11, M11P and M11M have all been fine except for one small freeze a few weeks ago on the P but that could have been me trying to 'shoot' before the camera had woken up, I had more (again not that many 3-5) with my M10's.

Quite frankly though if your camera basically freezes all the time just take it back to the store and demand you get another one, take some shots of the screen etc when it does it. 

 

 

[kiwidad]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:14 PM, SrMi said:

I found it curious that people complaining loudest about M11 instability, which is an issue, are those who do not own an M11.

you forgot to mention and they know lots of people who have issues!

I feel some days that some who post here almost delight in posting.. " has it frozen yet" to a new happy M11 owner!

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Pelu2010]

Hey, 

can we agree that people also sell their cameras because they can’t adopt to the system or do not want to adopt to the system. I would say that the Leica M are controversial because it uses a system that most people don’t know. So if confronted with that and with an attentions span of 6 seconds it won’t work. Then most people don’t read manuals and this camera may require some reading or watching videos if you are used to AF or full automatic cameras. 
so it’s a camera that people think they need and if confronted with the camera, can’t handle. So I think that leicas got sold more often than other cameras. You need some time to get the system. Time maybe without moving. Just contemplating and watching. And the biggest mistake is: 

sometimes it’s not the camera that is a bug. 
it’s the user! 
take a workshop ! 
ask some people that own the camera! 
make friends. 
 

cheers 🥃