I see many used M11's out there for sale with major camera retailers in the US, would you be

[AllenB]

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reluctant to purchase a used m11 (with a 3-6-month warranty) with all the noted issues of freezing, or do you feel Leica has taken steps to resolve most of the issues to your satisfaction?  I've also seen a few posts mentioning another firmware update which, I'm guessing, will address the few lingering issues if this rumor is true.

Edited May 11, 2024 by AllenB

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[lct]

My M11 is flawless but some other users have issues with it. I would wait and see the next firmware update that should come this month. See:

 

[don daniel]

My M11 has few problems. A firmware update is in sight. But now I would really wait to see how it turns out. Now Leica really has to prove that they are capable of making a product reliably operational. Until this has been achieved, I would not buy an M11 at the current time.

[Alvin Greis]

I bought M11 a year ago and have no issues when using it. The only thing I noticed is about tethering with Capture One. Sometimes it looses connection with the camera.

[Strmbrg]

I've nagged about it before, but when things are getting more and more complex - in the end not even the engineers themselves seem to understand the thing they have created.
At least not when it doesn't work as it was meant to.
It is not getting easier when maybe software is designed, produced and supplied from somewhere outside the company. And maybe even "somewhere out there", there is several companies that are involved.

Please, keep things simple and do not put more and more things inside cameras - just because it can be done. And, if one is lucky, it even will work properly. 🙂
Hm, companies survive on selling things, and if there is too much competition, there is too much "innovation". And some of us are way too keen on "upgrading". Me included.
 

Sometimes I long for my old and simple Nikon FM2. If it was exactly the same, but with a sensor I gladly would buy it.
Well even a very much more simplified Leica-M would be nice. But it doesn't matter what brand, I am not "mentally dependent" on any brand or any "brand-community". Sure, I don't have to learn or use all things even my comparatively simple M10-R can do, but it's complexity in its construction is in itself too prone to fuss up. The shutter release doesn't respond, the camera freezes, it behaves strange with some memory cards... No one really understands why. Too much, too complex. 

Edited May 11, 2024 by Strmbrg

[SrMi]

I posit that most M11 owners have trouble-free M11 cameras. 

[Jeff S]

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5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I posit that most M11 owners have trouble-free M11 cameras. 

Of course … but that could mean 60% or 75% or 98%. 
 

Jeff

[AllenB]

1 hour ago, Strmbrg said:

I've nagged about it before, but when things are getting more and more complex - in the end not even the engineers themselves seem to understand the thing they have created.
At least not when it doesn't work as it was meant to.
It is not getting easier when maybe software is designed, produced and supplied from somewhere outside the company. And maybe even "somewhere out there", there is several companies that are involved.

Please, keep things simple and do not put more and more things inside cameras - just because it can be done. And, if one is lucky, it even will work properly. 🙂
Hm, companies survive on selling things, and if there is too much competition, there is too much "innovation". And some of us are way too keen on "upgrading". Me included.
 

Sometimes I long for my old and simple Nikon FM2. If it was exactly the same, but with a sensor I gladly would buy it.
Well even a very much more simplified Leica-M would be nice. But it doesn't matter what brand, I am not "mentally dependent" on any brand or any "brand-community". Sure, I don't have to learn or use all things even my comparatively simple M10-R can do, but it's complexity in its construction is in itself too prone to fuss up. The shutter release doesn't respond, the camera freezes, it behaves strange with some memory cards... No one really understands why. Too much, too complex. 

I’d tend to agree with you but my Sony a7rv has been flawless since day one and that thing is a computer just as much as it is a camera.  🤷🏾‍♂️

Edited May 11, 2024 by AllenB

[Strmbrg]

Hm, over 10.000 Euros/Dollars. And it isn't sure it will work properly. Incredible.
I do not defend any brand, what so ever, so for me it's not a problem to have this attitude.

[SrMi]

24 minutes ago, Strmbrg said:

Hm, over 10.000 Euros/Dollars. And it isn't sure it will work properly. Incredible.
I do not defend any brand, what so ever, so for me it's not a problem to have this attitude.

If my $9,000 camera does not work properly I would return or replace it.

[Malabito]

Too many issues. If you are going to buy, buy from a reputable store that allows returns. And yes, it's a huge issue, of at least 10 M11 users I know personally, I would say 8 have issues.

I bought my M11 used, but I have been relatively lucky. It rarely locks up, but it does. I also got some corrupt files, only one in about 3k images, but still, I never got them with other brands.

As some mentioned above, wait for the firmware update to see what happens. Leica has a disaster on its hands, and no one really knows what the issue is with the camera. It's all speculation. I never had any issues with the M240 and M10.

[Malabito]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

No resolving for two years now. Those who get a good one stick with it. There are probably more good ones out there than lemons, but it's a lottery when buying used.

I don't believe there are more good ones than lemons. In my small universe of people I personally know with M11s (around 10), at least 8 have some kind of issue. Is that proof that all have issues? No... but it doesn't make it look very good.

[trickness]

Every single M11 user I personally know has had issues of some kind: freezing, random weird exposures, losing images, shutter failures, or the camera totally bricking. I have a friend whose brand new M11M required a trip to Wetzlar for a main board replacement, it came back and almost immediately failed again, so back to Wetzlar again - and the loaner they gave him also is flaky. Brand new $9300 camera! Yikes. 

Resale on the M11 Is atrocious already, I'd hate to buy one of these out of warranty. In years to come people are going to avoid these variants like the plague. Personally I think they threw too much tech at this body and I sure hope the M12 is more carefully considered and reliable.

Edited May 11, 2024 by trickness

[DadDadDaddyo]

I'm having a wonderful time with my M11. Really and truly. 

I got it as a bargain because somebody returned it. It came with warranty and return policy. Never needed to invoke them.

What I *don't know is whether my M11's first buyer returned it because...

a) they were having a terrible time, or,

b) they read *here that they were *going to have a terrible time, or maybe,

c) learning they'd be met with derision here if they didn't join the chorus.

I'm just glad that first owner returned that M11, because now I'm using it and having a wonderful time.

[trickness]

39 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

I'm having a wonderful time with my M11. Really and truly. 

I got it as a bargain because somebody returned it. It came with warranty and return policy. Never needed to invoke them.

What I *don't know is whether my M11's first buyer returned it because...

a) they were having a terrible time, or,

b) they read *here that they were *going to have a terrible time, or maybe,

c) learning they'd be met with derision here if they didn't join the chorus.

I'm just glad that first owner returned that M11, because now I'm using it and having a wonderful time.

Every Friday the 13th movie started with happy kids just going to camp to have a good time….but then….. 🤣

[SrMi]

29 minutes ago, trickness said:

Every Friday the 13th movie started with happy kids just going to camp to have a good time….but then….. 🤣

How long do I have to wait? It has been now more than 2 years and both M11s do not have any issues.

[trickness]

37 minutes ago, SrMi said:

How long do I have to wait? It has been now more than 2 years and both M11s do not have any issues.

How much do you shoot? And how do you shoot? 

In any case, it’s great that you got something you’re happy with. Hope you have a long and fruitful relationship with your cameras - we should wish that for everybody.

[SrMi]

15 minutes ago, trickness said:

How much do you shoot? And how do you shoot? 

In any case, it’s great that you got something you’re happy with. Hope you have a long and fruitful relationship with your cameras - we should wish that for everybody.

How do I shoot? I use it only with Leica lenses, with and without EVF, most often in A mode with Auto-ISO.

I had it as my only camera for a six-week trip to Europe in Autumn 2022, and I will be taking it on another six-week trip to Europe next week. I shoot with it locally between the trips and rotate with SL3, Q3, and X2D.

How do you shoot that you have problems with your M11?

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[LeicaR10]

AllenB,  First, welcome to the forum.  Second, I would not buy a used M11 without a full Leica certified 1 or 2 year warranty.   Plus I definitely do not recommend a new one for $9,000.00 USD.  You are far better off buying a used M10 or variant from a Leica dealer with a written warranty.  My 3 M11s all variants, were totally unreliable and absolute duds.  All had issues with the worst being lost files.  Save yourself a lot of grief and money on this model.  I write as a pro with decades of experience with Leica.  r/ Mark

Edited May 12, 2024 by LeicaR10

[trickness]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

How do I shoot? I use it only with Leica lenses, with and without EVF, most often in A mode with Auto-ISO.

I had it as my only camera for a six-week trip to Europe in Autumn 2022, and I will be taking it on another six-week trip to Europe next week. I shoot with it locally between the trips and rotate with SL3, Q3, and X2D.

How do you shoot that you have problems with your M11?

I don't have an M11. As I mentioned previously, every single photographer I know in NY who uses one has had issues of some kind or another, from mild to disastrous. There's a guy on YouTube who's been through 7 or 8 M11's, and even bought a brand new M11P at B&H in a video and it failed on a shoot within an hour. He returned it and got an SL2, which gave him no problems. I have two SL2's which have given me no problems and I use them 3-4 days weekly, one since launch. For M, I have an MP film camera, no interest in M digital or using an EVF on a rangefinder body.

The reason I ask how you shoot is that there seem to be no commonalities amongst those who've had problems, although using off brand SD cards, or the Leica Foto app, or Bluetooth seem to asking for trouble. Given that you're in a fairly select group of people who claim zero issues on two bodies, thought it would be helpful to understand how you use your 11's as maybe you're doing something different that is less likely to cause trouble and that would be useful information.