Is my SL2-S Bundle the Right tool for the job, or is there a better tool?

[hansvons]

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On 4/30/2024 at 5:05 AM, lencap said:

 

So, I guess I'm asking myself an uncomfortable question:

Excellent question I can relate very much to.

1. As @BernardC already pointed out your idea to have your family taking photos was a brilliant idea. They had a good time, you too, of course, and perhaps you sparked buried creativity.

2. I recently lent my 17-year-old nice an ancient Fuji camera with a Chinese manual prime. A fortnight later, she showed me her 2.000+ images and we edited them together for 3 hours. She kept concentrating and had clear ideas. She knows nothing technical about photography, but she’s certainly a talent.

3. Photography can be a hobby with self-healing powers. However, as usual, doing stuff for and with others is always more rewarding than thinking of what you can do for yourself. That’s why GAS is destructive, and why I always have an audience for what I work on, even if it’s temporarily imaginary.

4. Life is about people you meet on your journey and about happiness, yours and other people’s. And it’s foremost about let go. That’s why cleaning the shelf and focusing on what matters to you most is an unavoidable exercise when you want to improve your photography (which in return will make you happy).

Because you asked, I offer a little advice: don’t baby the Leica and think of it as something precious only a knowledgeable person can handle. It’s not.
Sell the Nikon, get the above-mentioned short Panasonic zoom, and next time let the Leica take the family tour. Leica is all about motivation. I bet your family’s photos would have been even better. 

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[keeping_a_balance]

To the OP: From your reflection of your time with your father and siblings developing film, why not try to apply this with some of the younger generation in your family.  Maybe you yourself need to get back into film as it sounds like that connection with your father/childhood is what you are yearning for.

Alternatively, do what @hansvons did with his younger relative and share the process - but you seem to want to step away from the tech side of things...

From what I read (or assume) you have time and expense is not a huge concern, so film costs while expensive today are not going to kill you and setting up a small makeshift dark room must be something you know how to do and would have a lot of fun doing as well...

If I am wrong so be it... just my thoughts from reading your posts.

Good luck.

[lencap]

Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.  I didn't mention initially, but I do have the Panasonic 20-60 Zoom.  I don't use it frequently (it's not a "Leica"), but I will start using it more for the very reasons mentioned - a single lens with several useful focal lengths and light weight.  It may not be "the best" lens, but most memorable photographs I've seen over the years weren't striking for their technical specs, but for the feeling the images gave me.  That seems to be the direction I should start with.

 

[SoCalLeicanator]

Lencap, hear me out.  Please.

If you want to keep your SL2-S (and I think you should.  It will be in the pantheon of the legendary Leicas one day IMO 

1) Sell your Leica 50 asph and pick up the Sigma 28-70 2.8 .  This combo will let in a lot more light than your Nikon and Panasonic kit lens, weighs only 70g more than your current Leica 50 setup and covers a TON of focal lengths.  or 

2)(likely controversial in these parts) thought: sell your Leica 50 asph and buy a set of performance identical MUCH lighter Lumix 1.8  primes. 

Family photography is often indoor photography.  Light is key.

Hope this helps

 

[lencap]

The Sigma (or Leica version) Zoom does cover a very useful range, but locally our AD mentioned that several copies of that lens have had issues with dust.  It seems more common on the Sigma, but it's apparently also showing up with the Leica version.  He said it's not a universal issue, but it seems to be more likely with extended use.  

I don't have any experience with these lenses, but I've noticed some comments on different forums indicating that others have had dust issues as well.

[Mute-on]

You would need to empty a vacuum cleaner into a lens to have enough dust for it to affect the photos taken with it - more or less. 

[Eclectic Man]

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You seem to be comparing the best photographs several other people took using the Nikon with the ones you took using your SL2-S, which is not a fair comparison.  Do you like the ones you took?  Did you have the opportunities the others had to take photos?  Remember that people like Cartier-Bresson, Elliott Erwitt, etc. took loads of photographs , but we get to see only their very best, whereas we see all our own failures.  If you like using the SL2-S, use it.

[Tjazz]

Such an interesting discussion. After being smitten with the Leica brand after stumbling across its store on a Copenhagen business trip in 2017, I’ve since gone through the D-Luxe, V-Luxe, Q2, SL2, selling those and finally stopping at Q2 Monochrom, SL2-S, and Q3. Of course I put myself in the queue for the SL3 but stepped out once I took a close look at my New Zealand shots with my SL2-S/24-90. I couldn’t ask for better rendering, dynamic range, low light capture, and depth of feeling. That camera has a very sophisticated 24MP sensor and just feels right. And I’ve had prints made to 16X24 inches with perfect clarity. I’m not a pro but photography is an important interest in my life and the 2-S still suits me well. As does the Q3 for street and Q2M for creative black and white. Wouldn’t the SL3 with its 60 MP be great? Maybe but my current kit lacks nothing for real life shooting. The greatest film photos had/have resolution equivalent to less than 24MP.  Plus I’m trying to create something artistic, so really don’t need to count the pores on someone’s skin in my prints. I’m learning to settle down and not need every new camera or lens and rather fully use what I have. 

[laowai_]

Picasso once said “It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child".

While expensive toys might seem like tools for creativity, the fear of damaging or losing them can discourage me from taking risks and discovering my own artistic voice. 

[JoshuaR]

This is a really nice thread, and there’s a lot here that resonates with me.

I mainly take pictures of family life, and there’s a type of camera that’s well-suited for it. It’s small, simple, quiet, unassuming, flexible, and fun. You can pass it around and anyone can use it immediately, even people who would otherwise be intimidated by a camera. Probably the camera I’ve owned in recent years that’s embodied this ethos the most was the Fujifilm X100F and, later, the X100V. I love my M cameras, but they don’t fit the bill because no one but me knows how to use them. And although the Q2 came close, it was just a little too sleek and luxurious to feel like a casual camera to be passed around. It comes across like a precious object. I think that Leica just doesn’t make a “fun” camera. An SL2-S with 50mm prime certainly doesn’t seem like a fun family camera to me; it seems like more of a professional tool. I’d probably feel odd wielding it a family party.

As the summer approaches in my part of the world, I’ve been thinking more and more about getting a “family camera” to have around the house. Could it be an X100VI, or a Q3, or maybe a digital CL? I’m not sure. But it’s a nice kind of camera to have, and, with my current M-only setup, I’m missing one. I’d like to own something that my wife can pick up and use. Or—and this is a total fantasy—I’d like to persuade her to pick up one of my Ms and get comfortable with it.

As for being “that guy”—right now, I use an M10-R, an M10M, an M6, a Pentax 67ii, and around ten M lenses to take pictures of my wife and kids and our adventures. It’s obvious to me that my kit far exceeds what I need for my relatively straightforward photography. Recently, we went on a vacation and I brought only the M10-R and a 28mm and 50mm lens. That was more like it, in terms of having a kit that felt commensurate to my goals. I was totally satisfied with the images I brought home. But “a man’s reach must exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for.” Owning expensive “high art” equipment does push me to try a little harder to turn my family photography into something like art. It’s an uncomfortable feeling, sometimes, almost embarrassing, like a kind of imposter syndrome; I have an acquaintance who’s a highly accomplished professional photographer, and I hate thinking about how my equipment is more expensive than hers. I’m in the process of paring back and selling off the more indulgent and unnecessary parts of my kit. It’s about finding a comfortable equilibrium.

Finally, @lencap, I wonder if there are other lessons to be taken from your story. One thing that stands out is that your family members, when they were given a real camera, seem to have succeeded in taking creative and fun photos. So many people today only use their phones, and phones can be very limiting; they don’t necessarily encourage photographic play. So maybe this experience reveals something about everyone else, and not only about you. It turns out there’s some latent photographic talent in the family. Why not bring your Nikon to more parties and encourage people to use it? Maybe a few of them will discover how much fun photography with a real camera can be.

[Simone_DF]

@lencap I’d suggest to consider bringing an instant camera like an Instax to these events. They are super fun to use, easy to pass around, and most importantly people get an instant print to bring back home

[LocalHero1953]

10 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

And although the Q2 came close, it was just a little too sleek and luxurious to feel like a casual camera to be passed around. It comes across like a precious object. I think that Leica just doesn’t make a “fun” camera.

Interesting - I find the Q2 is Leica's fun camera. I often pass it around among my small grandchildren, as it is not too heavy for them. They all know that the first thing they have to do is slip their hand through the wrist strap, but after that it's up to them. Mine's a Reporter, so perhaps the coloured body makes it look less like a serious camera.

[lencap]

I've had some time to think more deeply about my initial post, helped greatly by your comments.  I've arrived at a different perspective than I thought.  Like everything else in life, perspective matters.  I'm not talking about photographic perspective, but "life" perspective.  Things that shape us throughout life, and how we incorporate/change those perspectives over time.

The family event I attended contained snippets from my life's experiences through the eyes of others.  The younger nephews/nieces (ranging from infant to early teens) viewed the "picture taking" opportunity as I had at the time - an interesting "toy" to play with.  But, as I did as well, once they began using it they saw it differently.  It was still "entertainment", but it was also something more.  That something more is the "seed" for either embracing photography as a potential lifetime adventure, or as a quick experiment that flourishes for a time, eventually falling away.

The 20s-40s group had different reactions.  Some also recalled an earlier time where "taking pictures" was part of a family gathering - typically posed shots to "get everybody in the shot", a souvenir of an enjoyable event shared with others.  When they took pictures they often tried to create a posed scene, not too different from their earlier family experiences.

Us "oldies" recalled the "Kodak" moments of our lives, when taking pictures was a common event, and people enjoyed actually holding the snapshots after they were developed and the family gathered to view them.  Some even remembered the "projection camera", a standard back when, and the memory of dad taking out the large screen so everyone could see the pictures easily.  Viewing thousands of those pictures over many decades I don't recall even once viewing those images and obsessing over the technical quality of those "snapshots".  They were art in a different form - art of capturing happy memories.

As I thought about all of this I realized that the least important part of this trip down memory lane was the gear.  The key was the shared family experience.  The picture taking was a way to capture that magic, create a memory of it, and share it again and again over the years.

And that is when I thought more about my current approach to photography.  It's morphed from the family sharing event to a more technical approach.  For me, somewhat surprisingly, it's become more about the gear than the image.  Instead of becoming upset by my unexpected shift in approach, it seems to mimic the magnitude of choice we have today.  Digital cameras, in all shapes/sizes/formats, create opportunities to find the "right tool" for the job.  In my past my photography "toolbox" was a film camera, with a choice of B/W or color film/slides.  There were fewer choices, so pretty much everyone knew how to cock the shutter and take a picture.  

Today the myriad of choices have perhaps made photography a bit less approachable.  I noticed this when I explained to everyone that "You can leave the camera in 'Green' setting and take the camera will make all the choices, or you can set it manually anyway you'd like."  Almost everyone left it in Auto mode.  The lesson I took from this experience was "Simple is better", and being engulfed in the reason for taking pictures is far more important than how you take the pictures.

I may be "That Guy", but then again I may just be more appreciative of a tool that makes "taking pictures" less complex (fewer menus/simpler controls/etc), and more attuned to capturing the moment.  Just like my dad's vast toolboxes, having the right tool for the job makes the "job" easier and more enjoyable.

So, I guess, now I'm coming to the perspective that "Whatever works for you is fine", and less along the viewpoint that emphasizing the technical aspects of today's tools is the "starting point" to gear selection/use.  It now seems to me that it's the "end point".  What tool do I need/want to use for the task at hand?  In many ways the SL2-S is often the preferred tool for what I want to do, and there's no reason to judge that decision any differently from other decisions.

Thanks for helping me wade through this thread.  There is certainly a time when technical skill/gear is helpful/necessary to create an image as you view it in your mind's eye.  But there is another time when capturing the feeling of an event is the primary intent.  Choosing which gear to use for either/both photography approaches is a personal choice, and there is no "right/wrong" absolute answer.  It's more along the lines of "pass/fail".  Will the tool I chose work for what I want to accomplish, and how much effort do I want to put into capturing those images?

My initial post reflected a feeling I've had for some time, focused on the gear/social implications/etcetera of photography, not the essence of photography.  Your comments helped me see it in a new light.  Thanks!

Edited May 4, 2024 by lencap

[Luke_Miller]

10 minutes ago, lencap said:

So, I guess, now I'm coming to the perspective that "Whatever works for you is fine", and less along the viewpoint that emphasizing the technical aspects of today's tools is the "starting point" to gear selection/use.  It now seems to me that it's the "end point".  What tool do I need/want to use for the task at hand?

Great post.  I am at the same place with my Leicas.  None are current production bodies, but they are sufficient to my needs and a joy to use.  

[dpitt]

On 5/1/2024 at 3:01 PM, lencap said:

Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.  I didn't mention initially, but I do have the Panasonic 20-60 Zoom.  I don't use it frequently (it's not a "Leica"), but I will start using it more for the very reasons mentioned - a single lens with several useful focal lengths and light weight.  It may not be "the best" lens, but most memorable photographs I've seen over the years weren't striking for their technical specs, but for the feeling the images gave me.  That seems to be the direction I should start with.

 

If you already have the 20-60 and it did not get much use, then maybe you need something else completely. I would suggest something easy to use, light to carry and still inspiring. All of what I would suggest is used, and some will laugh at what I propose. Technically they are obsolete, but they produce very nice pictures and are fun to use. At the same time they are easy to hand over to anyone without fear of damage or loss, or take with you in dangerous situations or area's. They all cost only a few hundred $

1. Leica Digilux 2
   I still take it out when I feel lazy, bored or both.
   Feels like a real camera with all physical buttons. Full auto is possible to hand it over to anyone.
   One of the best lenses Leica ever made, and back to basics. Very little processing since it basically is a ISO 100, JPEG shooter. It still has a die hard fan club with reason...
   It challenges the user if you want to get results like the best samples in the thread below, but when you get it just right, it is magic.
2. Leica X2
   I would recommend the EVF in bright sunlight.
   Otherwise even lighter and less extreme old school than the Digilux 2. It still is a worthy alternative to my Leica M9 with its 16 MP fine output.
   Ideal for a daily carry camera. I use it as my 35mnm alternative when I want to have a second prime FL (50 or 90mm) on my SL or M9.
3. Leica T
   Cheap enough now to make it to this list. At base ISO almost as good as your SL2-S and it uses the same lenses. The 20-60 will make it a very light and useful 30-90 zoom camera.
   I prefer to use it with the 020 EVF.
   I find the results with my Summicron 35 M and a simple mechanical adapter stunning. With the 35 Summicron M it is roughly the same size as the X2.

I could continue with the TL2 / CL and Q series. They all are fun, but the budget will go up, and then maybe the fear factor for damage or loss, and worse, the technical factor may creep back in...

YMMV

Edited May 4, 2024 by dpitt

[mauri57]

On 4/30/2024 at 5:05 AM, lencap said:

 If so, what do I need to change to give me that flexibility?

To learn how to shoot pictures

camera types does not matter