Black and white preview?

[jagstang]

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As I found myself shooting more and more in black and white, I wanted to set the image preview to black and white, but couldn’t find an option for it. Seems like the only way to do this is to shoot DNG+JPG and set the JPG to black and white, but it’s a waste of space and a hassle to then unselect all the JPG during import. Am I missing something? This should be a very basic function for a camera like this, or are they scared of cannibalizing into the Monochrome system?

[jaapv]

No, just the way it is and has been long before monochroms arrived. The camera must turn the dng into a jpg anyway to show it on the preview. Separating on import is easy, just adjust your import settings to DNG only. 

[jeri]

If the size issue bothers you, then you have the option to control the file size in jpeg as in DNG.

[jagstang]

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

No, just the way it is and has been long before monochroms arrived. The camera must turn the dng into a jpg anyway to show it on the preview. Separating on import is easy, just adjust your import settings to DNG only. 

 

9 minutes ago, jeri said:

If the size issue bothers you, then you have the option to control the file size in jpeg as in DNG.

Yeah, I do all these but it’s an inefficient workaround for something that should be pretty basic and easy.

I usually use Capture One which can separate files, but I sometimes use Image Capture on Mac to import files when I go out without a memory card as C1 can’t import from the M11 internal memory. Image Capture doesn’t have an option to import DNG only. You have to organise the files by size which makes navigating them messy.

[elmars]

If it is about the preview in Liveview and playmode: Set the jpg-style to monochromes. It is not nessecary to take jpg photos. The jpg style will be applied to the dng preview. 

[jagstang]

9 minutes ago, elmars said:

If it is about the preview in Liveview and playmode: Set the jpg-style to monochromes. It is not nessecary to take jpg photos. The jpg style will be applied to the dng preview. 

Aha! This is exactly what I was looking for. I can’t believe I didn’t try setting the JPG to bw without actually enabling it. I knew this should be possible, thank you! 

[M11 for me]

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I have even a user Profile for B/W: Do this:

- File Format DNG (no JPGj

- DNG resolution: Put in your choice

- JPG settings: Go to Film Style and set to B&W (I have it as high contrast as this suits me better)

This (plus other settings) I stored as a user profile that I called "B&W".

Like this you still shoot just in DNG and no JPG will be created at all.

Edited April 21, 2024 by M11 for me

[jeri]

I often use black and white JPEGs straight from the camera. Sometimes I need to print small pictures that I pass on to my subjects. And there is nothing better for such a task, than the jpeg files (B&W in my case), which come directly from the camera, and of course in the appropriate size.

[jagstang]

1 hour ago, jeri said:

I often use black and white JPEGs straight from the camera. Sometimes I need to print small pictures that I pass on to my subjects. And there is nothing better for such a task, than the jpeg files (B&W in my case), which come directly from the camera, and of course in the appropriate size.

Yeah, the BW jpg are surprisingly good straight out of the camera! 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

And if you set jpeg to B&W and the camera to DNG only, Fotos will recognise that and give you a B&W image.

So the metadata is in the DNG.

So everyone tell Leica we want this information pushed through to LR and C1 as well.

Gordon

[elmars]

LR has this information. Look what happens at the import of a photo. In the import window the photo is shown in b/w, because there LR uses the preview embedded in the dng, which is a very small (!) jpg. The same shortly after the import in the library. But then LR starts to make its own preview an this gets colored. You can set the import settings of LR to keep the embedded preview. But then You only have only this small preview jpg which is hard to work with. 

[jaapv]

As far as I am aware the embedded jpg is in greyscale which means that there would be no possibility to do filter simulations. 

[jaapv]

It is quite logical that a DNG file will lead to  a colour image; it is NOT an image file but a container for the full data, including colour information. Disregarding the low-quality embedded jpg file which, as noted above, is not suitable for editing or export, the only way that the camera settings could be translated in raw conversion is to add  a sidecar file with instructions. That would need to be readable and implemented in all postprocessing programs which is akin to herding frogs. 
In LR wouldn’t it be the most logical to make a Leica-like default import profile  and use that for a one-click B&W conversion? I am sure that all PP software offers similar options. 

[DrM]

If you import the embedded thumbnail with the DNG, the image will appear in B&W in LR, so it will remind you of the looks you were after.

Best

Marc

[fotografr]

Surprised nobody has mentioned the most obvious solution: M11M

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 4/23/2024 at 11:24 AM, jaapv said:

It is quite logical that a DNG file will lead to  a colour image; it is NOT an image file but a container for the full data, including colour information. Disregarding the low-quality embedded jpg file which, as noted above, is not suitable for editing or export, the only way that the camera settings could be translated in raw conversion is to add  a sidecar file with instructions. That would need to be readable and implemented in all postprocessing programs which is akin to herding frogs. 
In LR wouldn’t it be the most logical to make a Leica-like default import profile  and use that for a one-click B&W conversion? I am sure that all PP software offers similar options. 

And yet Fujifilm manages to do it in both Lightroom and C1. All it would take is for Leica to work with the companies to have the Leica looks available as starting points on import to the raw processors. This tech is already available from both Leica and Adobe and Phase. They just need to talk to each other about getting together.

And no, for me it wouldn't be logical. If I shoot some in colour and some in b&w during a day I'd like to see that in my raw processor. Not all or none. And I don't want to have to note or remember my b&w options for a few days until I load my files. I have made a workaround but it's a bit of a cludge.

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:43 PM, DrM said:

If you import the embedded thumbnail with the DNG, the image will appear in B&W in LR, so it will remind you of the looks you were after.

Best

Marc

For about 2 seconds, until LR automatically replaces it with the Adobe thumbnail. You can set LR to import using the embedded thumbnail but as soon as you click on the file it'll be replaced as well. Not ideal.

Gordon

[jaapv]

52 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And yet Fujifilm manages to do it in both Lightroom and C1. All it would take is for Leica to work with the companies to have the Leica looks available as starting points on import to the raw processors. This tech is already available from both Leica and Adobe and Phase. They just need to talk to each other about getting together.

And no, for me it wouldn't be logical. If I shoot some in colour and some in b&w during a day I'd like to see that in my raw processor. Not all or none. And I don't want to have to note or remember my b&w options for a few days until I load my files. I have made a workaround but it's a bit of a cludge.

Gordon

But you can choose your import profile per image in my workflow through ACR-PS. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

But you can choose your import profile per image in my workflow through ACR-PS. 

I use LR. And on a trip I might have 2-500 images in a day. You're saying I should sit and select an import profile individually for 500 files at a time? And how exactly do I know which shots I took in b&w for that day?

Ummmm? No.

I already have a better workaround. But I'd like to have what Fuji has arranged with Adobe in that the selected in camera profile is mimicked in LR as the starting point for processing. There is no technical reason that the Leica looks can't be honoured in LR and other processors.

Gordon

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[jaapv]

Well, my simple workaround is to shoot DNG+JPG... But the OP doesn't want to do that