SL3 , am I the only one ?

[SrMi]

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33 minutes ago, BernardC said:

That's what the PtP graphs show.

No, that is not what the P2P graphs show. You are the only knowledgeable person I know with that twisted interpretation of DR graphs (P2P or else). I have tried explaining what DR and DR measurements are about several times, but to no avail. 

33 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Exposure is a red herring in this case. Either you get 12 stops of DR or you don't. Exposure only determines which 12 stops you capture (for instance if you had a perfect scene that went from absolute blackness to supernova, with a constant gradient between the two).

Not at all.

If I shoot 1/1600 at f/5.6 at ISO 100, I will have four stops less DR in my image than at 1/100 at f/5.6 at ISO 100. Try it out, and look at the noise in the shadows.

DR is the difference between an image's max and min values.

 

Edited April 23, 2024 by SrMi

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[BernardC]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

No, that is not what the P2P graphs show. You are the only knowledgeable person I know with that twisted interpretation of DR graphs (P2P or else). I have tried explaining what DR and DR measurements are about several times, but to no avail. 

If you look at the PtP graph, it shows over 11 stops of DR at EI 100 and over 10 stops at EI 200. That's what it shows.

You've explained previously that PtP uses their own definition of DR, which their web site confirms. What they call "photographic dynamic range" isn't the industry calls "dynamic range," which is a source of confusion. They should pick a different term.

12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

If I shoot 1/1600 at f/5.6 at ISO 100, I will have four stops less DR in my image than at 1/100 at f/5.6 at ISO 100. Try it out, and look at the noise in the shadows.

Same scene or different scene? Are you just talking about under-exposure? Granted, shadows are under-exposed if you under-expose, but that doesn't mean that the sensor itself has less dynamic range, it means that you've under-exposed your shot. 1/1600 at 5.6 might be a perfect exposure if you are shooting an eclipse, but it's under-exposed for the majority of scenes.

[ZHNL]

4 hours ago, BernardC said:

I mean the exact same. If the first shot is 1/125 at f:8.0, then the second shot is also 1/125 at f:8.0. The only difference is the ISO setting.

Some people claim that the second shot (where the camera is set to EI 200) will have one stop less dynamic range, compared to the first shot (where the camera was set to EI 100). This contradicts real-world tests done by myself and others.

If you try this test and find that you've lost dynamic range, can you tell me which raw converter you used, and where the DR was lost (highlights, shadows, split between both?).

Nobody claim that and that is not P2P graph show. It show you max DR you can reach for given ISO. 
 

lets use another example here. You have a gallon cup and oz cup, and you take both to filled with 1oz water and claim both the same 1oz water. But what we are talking about is which one can hold more water?

in real user case, you just can’t use double ISO and take the same exposure time to get peak DR. Because you can take only half signal/light before saturate your electric headroom. 

Edited April 23, 2024 by ZHNL

[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, BernardC said:

If you look at the PtP graph, it shows over 11 stops of DR at EI 100 and over 10 stops at EI 200. That's what it shows.

No, for the nth time, it does not show that. It shows the maximum possible PDR at a given ISO. What prevents you from accepting that explanation?

21 minutes ago, BernardC said:

You've explained previously that PtP uses their own definition of DR, which their web site confirms. What they call "photographic dynamic range" isn't the industry calls "dynamic range," which is a source of confusion. They should pick a different term.

All DR graphs, whether EDR, PDR, or DxO, use the same interpretation: the maximum possible DR at a given ISO. What is the industry's "dynamic range?" There is no standard dynamic range measurement.

[Jeff S]

The OP probably has suffered a brain hemorrhage by now, after making a simple comment about the new ISO dial. 
 

Gotta love the forum.

 

Jeff

[stephan_w]

I hate the dial, because the concept of the SL2 was much bestter. Also, the dial is loose and changes without notice.

 

I want to disable it for something else, just don't know what

[jaapv]

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On 4/23/2024 at 5:52 PM, ZHNL said:

Nobody claim that and that is not P2P graph show. It show you max DR you can reach for given ISO. 
 

lets use another example here. You have a gallon cup and oz cup, and you take both to filled with 1oz water and claim both the same 1oz water. But what we are talking about is which one can hold more water?

in real user case, you just can’t use double ISO and take the same exposure time to get peak DR. Because you can take only half signal/light before saturate your electric headroom. 

If you leave aperture and shutter speed the same, the number of photons, and with it the fill of the sensels (pixels ) will remain the same. The ISO value is nothing more than the amplification value of the sensor signal. Of course there are tricks, like dual native ISO etc., but that will not affect the amount of light recorded by the sensor. The DR is determined by the electronic ( both analog and digital) pipeline after the sensor dump. 

[Manicouagan1]

I used Rawdigger to plot out the pixel values of 0 to 15,871 ( a bit less than 2 exp 14  for each of the approximately 60 million red blue or green pixels.    Although no clipped pixels are visible in the demosaiced version the image  some red blue or green pixels are actually saturated.  The image was processed with Lightroom Classic and apparently the demoniacing software fills in the values from the saturated pixels.    ISO was 100.   

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