I'd Like to Re-enter M ownership, but I'm not sure. Help me decide on the M10

[lencap]

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Greetings!

I owned several M body cameras in the past, M-A, M-P, M7, M9 along with primarily 50mm lenses.  I'm a "senior citizen" and getting critical focus had been challenging, so I moved to the SL family, and now own a SL2-S with the 50mm SL-Summicron f/2.0 ASPH lens.  That camera does all that I could want it to do, but I miss the feel/haptics of the M body.  I also greatly miss the distance markings and ability to set hypercritical focus manually.  I owned the original Q, but the 28mm FL doesn't work for me - it's me, not the camera.  I shoot many types of images, but I'd like to build a setup that emphasizes candid portraits.

So, I'm exploring buying a M10 and a 50mm lens.  I'd like advice in these areas, and welcome comment/suggestions/insights:

- I have always owned the Summicron lenses, but may want to move to the Summilux to have the option for "bokeh magic" in some images.  Is the bokeh worth the extra weight, even if not used often?  

- The M10 is my target for the narrower body, lack of video, smaller 24MP sensor.   Is this the right body?

- If I find that the M10 doesn't work for me, and try to resell it, how difficult would that be (KEH is an option), and what do you think the financial cost would be?

- As a cheaper reentry I was also considering older Nikon film cameras/lenses - Model F, Nikkormat, etc.  Much lower cost, and touches all the nostalgia buttons.  Not a RF, but OK?

 

Thanks again for the help.  The SL body is really a great tool, I just like the "old school" enjoyment of manual gear.

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[TomB_tx]

Another Old Guy here... I've had (and have) about all the M bodies, and always preferred Summicrons 35 & 50 for their size and handling. I have an original  Summilux 50, and it's a beautiful lens - but I seldom use it, even on film. For me, Summicron is ideal. While y M9 was off for sensor replacement I got a chrome M10 (basic model) and love it. IT feels and handles like an M7. With its great high ISO capability I now use Summarit 35 f2.5 as my standard lens on it, with a Summarit 50 2,5 when called for. They are identical size and handling, so easy to switch, and great for fast shooting. Get the M10 - any version - and you'll love it.

Lately I've been shooting a lot of B&W film trying different types and developers. I really like PanF (ISO 50) and for it have been using VC Nokton 35 f1.4 (rev II) and 50 f1.5 for low and slow lighting. I prefer these to the current Leica offerings, and at their cost it's not much risk to try.

I've also been re-visiting my old SLRs (from R8 back to Pentax H1a, including Nikon F & F2, Canon F1, etc), and with them a 1.4 lens focuses better. They're fun too, and with my cataracts replaced with new lenses I can see to focus them pretty well - but not as consistent as an M RF.

BTW - many may prefer the M10P for its quieter shutter, but since I've been shooting a Hasselblad 500 and Pentax 6x7 lately, the basic M10 seems silent!

Edited April 9, 2024 by TomB_tx

[Anbaric]

53 minutes ago, lencap said:

- I have always owned the Summicron lenses, but may want to move to the Summilux to have the option for "bokeh magic" in some images.  Is the bokeh worth the extra weight, even if not used often?  

- The M10 is my target for the narrower body, lack of video, smaller 24MP sensor.   Is this the right body?

- If I find that the M10 doesn't work for me, and try to resell it, how difficult would that be (KEH is an option), and what do you think the financial cost would be?

- As a cheaper reentry I was also considering older Nikon film cameras/lenses - Model F, Nikkormat, etc.  Much lower cost, and touches all the nostalgia buttons.  Not a RF, but OK?

I don't really notice the extra weight of my (old E43 50mm) Summilux. I like the look, but there are arguments to be made for many other lenses.

Narrower is better, though video doesn't bother me (in fact I'd regard it as a plus, though I wouldn't use it often). The sensor will be fine. I would say a good choice.

I imagine an M10 would be easy to re-sell at the moment, but of course if you buy from a dealer and sell to a dealer you'll take a significant hit (they might pay only about ~50% of what they sell for). With private sales you might break even or better, though you'll be taking on more of the risk. Some dealers will sell on commission, which will give you a bigger cut, but you'll have to wait until a sale is made for your money.

Classic Nikon SLRs are great, but digital vs film is a fundamental decision, and if you'd consider a film camera why not an M? The price does help, though! An FM does more or less what an M6 does for perhaps 5% of the cost, and it's also a light, compact camera with a range of excellent lenses (which tend to come in at under 5-10% of the price of the nearest M equivalent). While the FM/FE series are perhaps closest in spirit to a Leica M, the mechanical high point is probably the F2, which needs no special pleading to be considered in the same league as a Leica for quality of engineering. Both Leica M and NIkon F are of course systems where you can have a set of lenses that work well on both film and digital bodies without adapters (though with Nikon you have to be more careful with your choices to ensure compatibility).

If cost is an issue, you could also consider Leica R/Leicaflex SLRs or the Leica screwmount RF system.

[brickftl]

after much deliberation on getting my first M (and I could easily have afforded any of them), I decided on the M10. It has the same sensor as the original Leica Q whose images I preferred much more than images from my subsequent Q2 and Q3 (all of which Q camera's I've since sold). I also like the 24mp size images, and find that more mps than that (such as 44+ of the M10R) reveal deficiencies in images that aren't apparent from images from the M10. Plus that size image is such a pleasure to work with.

My lenses:

• 50/1.4 summilux asph. 
• 35/1.4 summilux asph steel rim issue. it's a toss up which lens I love more - this one or the 50.
• 21/3.4 super elmar. I just ordered this and am awaiting delivery.

 

[Mute-on]

@Lenscap, having reviewed your comments on this and the 28mm FL thread, there’s one option that occurs to me - what about trying a 50mm (or other FL) M lens one your SL2-S?  You would need the M to L adapter too.

Some advantages:

• You keep the SL2-S excellent image quality, low light performance, and advanced metering 
• EVF with focus peaking for critical focus at wide apertures
• M lens with distance marking for setting hyperfocal distance 
• Manual lens for more engaging experience 
• Smaller and lighter overall form factor 
• Far lower cost than M10 + lens
• Access to nearly ever M/LTM lens made over the past 70+ years

Something to consider, perhaps … 

Edited April 10, 2024 by Mute-on

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, Anbaric said:

I imagine an M10 would be easy to re-sell at the moment, but of course if you buy from a dealer and sell to a dealer you'll take a significant hit (they might pay only about ~50% of what they sell for). With private sales you might break even or better, though you'll be taking on more of the risk. Some dealers will sell on commission, which will give you a bigger cut, but you'll have to wait until a sale is made for your money.

 

The OP is in the US, which has various good dealer options.  Leica Miami, for instance, provides 80% FMV on trades (based on condition, included original items, etc) and 70% on selected purchases. Many choices.

Jeff

[KFo]

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I think you kind of said yourself..."and getting critical focus had been challenging, so I moved to the SL family, and now own a SL2-S with the 50mm ..."

So moving to the M10 family with a Summilux 50 may once again be stretching your ability to focus; unless something has changed.  If you want to play with 50s you can do that on the SL with the advantage of autofocus or focus peaking.

I understand using the M for the user experience. It is superior in every way IMHO.  That is one of the big reasons I use my M10P.  Anyway, maybe you setup with an M10P and 50 cron and shoot stopped down a bit to compensate for focus error, or even a 35 Summilux doing the same as needed.  35 works as a portrait lens by the way as well. 

As far as the economics go, when I bought my M10P, I bought it new.  In the Safari version I think it was about $8500 US.  Now they are what, $4-5000 US?  Maybe this is the price bottom for a while in spite of calls for the death of the M10 family at the altar of the M11.  Maybe it isn't.  If this something that is an inconvenience you should pass.  If it isn't an inconvenience, buy it and enjoy it for what it is.

I don't use the old Nikons, but I do use old Canon RF lenses on my M10P and they are my favourites (and I own a crapload of lenses in the 28 - 35 range).  Anyway another suggestion and a way to get back into the M with less bank account pain is to tool up a system with an M240 or even M9 and a some Canon LTM lenses. I bet you can build out a nice functional, enjoyable M system for less than $4000US and have the advantages of the M (user experience, etc) with less of the downside ($$$$$).

[Xavier]

As suggested above, one option I would consider is using M lenses on the SL2-s. This might turn out a perfectly satisfactory solution for you, with much smaller lens size and distance markings, while preserving the ease of focus thanks to the EVF.

I read good things about some M lenses on the Zf (but have not tried it). That might also be a nice solution, that retains the EVF, but brings more compactness.

[kivis]

Another old guy with a new lease on my manual focus life; I got Frankenstein eyes (Corona lens replacement). Thankfully I find nothing beats an M10 with a Version 5 'Cron 50mm f2.0. Perfect ergonomics and plenty small. Just everything is "right".

Edited April 11, 2024 by kivis

[PCPix]

I got the M10 very soon after launch, I felt it was the most true to the original M3 design of all of the digitals up to that point, and still feel that way now, despite the arrival of the M11.  

i then upgraded to the M10-R, primarily for the better highlight quality of that sensor and the quiet shutter. Really couldn’t ask for a better M!

The only 50 I have is the v3 Summicron - famously the ‘undesirable’ of the Summicron 50’s…  yet one of it’s ‘downsides’ may actually play in your favour: The very long throw focusing is dismissed by many as being too slow, but it is definitely more precise and it may indeed help your difficulty in focusing to be improved?

So that’s my recommendation, for what it’s worth - M10-R with a v3 Summicron.

 

On 4/9/2024 at 9:16 PM, lencap said:

exploring buying a M10 and a 50mm lens

 

[patrickcolpron]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:16 PM, lencap said:

Greetings!

I owned several M body cameras in the past, M-A, M-P, M7, M9 along with primarily 50mm lenses.  I'm a "senior citizen" and getting critical focus had been challenging, ...

I left Leica after the M9 and came back with the M10, the M10 is so good I purchased and still own all 5 variants. 
 

The M10-D is my favorite M10 model for it's ergonomics and sensor size, the original M10 in my opinion has the better shutter, not as quiet but doesn't introduce any camera shake at low shutter speed.

My most used M10 is the M10-R black paint because it looks great and lately, I have really started using 50 mil lenses on the M10-Monochrom. The 50 Summilux ASPH first version is stellar on the M-10 Monochrom in combination with a yellow filter. 
 

If I had to pick but one M10 and one lens today, it would be the M10-Monochrom with a Summilux 50 ASPH, the previous version without the close focusing. 
 

It is easy enough to nail sharp focus with my bad eyes using the optical viewfinder. This said the 50 APO is great too on the Monochrom and is smaller. 
 

Hope this helps