M12 wishlist

[costa43]

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2 hours ago, algrove said:

Don't forget the M240-- September 2012.

And the M8 - 2006

[Herr Barnack]

On 3/1/2025 at 7:51 AM, ksrhee said:

First of all, I doubt that Leica insiders are trying to generate excitement and anticipation . . .  They wouldn't suddenly turn into Sony (ha, ha).

Here is the timeline for introduction

M9 - 2009, M10- 2017, M10-R, 2020, and M11, 2022.  

If we take the most optimistic view, we are looking at 2027.

 

Five years between major M camera releases seems to be correct, historically speaking.  

If that timing holds, it's gonna be a long damn dry spell until the M12 drops.  Then it's going to take 3+ years to get the bugs worked out of it [sigh of exasperation/]🙄.
 

Edited April 4 by Herr Barnack

[Besprosvet]

Given that it seems the M11 is slowly going discontinued, and given the M evf is coming out soon, I believe they're going to make a purist M12 (in the likes of the M10-R) and the M evf is going to be the one with IBIS etc...

The M evf is going to be the new platform to build new models every few years to sell to new customers that want to "upgrade", and the classic digital rangefinder the one to stay forever in production, like their film cameras. Some get the classic digital M, and others get their EVF IBIS one.

And if I'm not wrong and it's going to be like this, I'm completely fine with it.

[Besprosvet]

I know I'm talking of things that do not exist, but I believe that a Q-like interchangeable lens system (more or less as big as the "dead" CL) with 3 or 4 AF 'crons (or 2.5 summarit to not kill the Q compacts) may be a good move.

Let's see if I'm good at predicting the future:

-

SL system: "want it all" mirrorless system

-

Q "mount": digital "comfort" and compactness with few primes (I see them in the form factor as the Sony 40mm 2.5 and 50mm 2.5). That system would compete with the Sony A7cII. Also Sigma is trying to go in that direction with the BF. People say that that kind of cameras are mostly created for Asian market, but Idk.

Q cameras: ultra compact all in one.

-

M evf: people that want an easier to use M with IBIS.

M digital: M with a sensor, no bells and whistles, doesn't get updated models.

M film: as classic as it can be, doesn't get updated models.

.

Personally, I'd buy for sure the Q mount with a couple of primes.

[evikne]

22 minutes ago, Besprosvet said:

Given that it seems the M11 is slowly going discontinued, and given the M evf is coming out soon, I believe they're going to make a purist M12 (in the likes of the M10-R) and the M evf is going to be the one with IBIS etc...

The M evf is going to be the new platform to build new models every few years to sell to new customers that want to "upgrade", and the classic digital rangefinder the one to stay forever in production, like their film cameras. Some get the classic digital M, and others get their EVF IBIS one.

And if I'm not wrong and it's going to be like this, I'm completely fine with it.

I could live fine with that solution too, but I'm not so sure that's what's going to happen. But only time will tell (because those who know won't tell).

[costa43]

19 minutes ago, Besprosvet said:

I know I'm talking of things that do not exist, but I believe that a Q-like interchangeable lens system (more or less as big as the "dead" CL) with 3 or 4 AF 'crons (or 2.5 summarit to not kill the Q compacts) may be a good move.

Let's see if I'm good at predicting the future:

-

SL system: "want it all" mirrorless system

-

Q "mount": digital "comfort" and compactness with few primes (I see them in the form factor as the Sony 40mm 2.5 and 50mm 2.5). That system would compete with the Sony A7cII. Also Sigma is trying to go in that direction with the BF. People say that that kind of cameras are mostly created for Asian market, but Idk.

Q cameras: ultra compact all in one.

-

M evf: people that want an easier to use M with IBIS.

M digital: M with a sensor, no bells and whistles, doesn't get updated models.

M film: as classic as it can be, doesn't get updated models.

.

Personally, I'd buy for sure the Q mount with a couple of primes.

Not sure it will be that black and white. There are too many people who want the rangefinder and want the camera to be as advanced as possible still. Leica had the opportunity with a D model to offer a stripped back option but they messed it up imo and made it too similar to the standard range just sans screen. I think the EVF model moving forward will be based on the standard model. I just hope the standard model does not become an EVF model! 
 

One of my biggest issues with the M11p/M10r are the wake from sleep times. It’s weird that my M8/M9 were so much more usable here. I hope they really improve on this in the next model.

Edited April 5 by costa43

[SiggiGun]

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb costa43:

Not sure it will be that black and white. There are too many people who want the rangefinder and want the camera to be as advanced as possible still. Leica had the opportunity with a D model to offer a stripped back option but they messed it up imo and made it too similar to the standard range just sans screen. I think the EVF model moving forward will be based on the standard model. I just hope the standard model does not become an EVF model! 

My assumption concerning M's future:

M11 is at his top. An M11-V can be a good opportunity to test the market even for the design for the certainly upcoming M12. For classic rangefinder, there is still a nice market  for film AND digital. So, M11-V will be a new branch between Q and M, certainly based on M-Mount.

[costa43]

8 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

My assumption concerning M's future:

M11 is at his top. An M11-V can be a good opportunity to test the market even for the design for the certainly upcoming M12. For classic rangefinder, there is still a nice market  for film AND digital. So, M11-V will be a new branch between Q and M, certainly based on M-Mount.

I think what is most likely is that Leica will keep their strategy as is and has been. Design a new M. Make small design changes to the same core product over the 5 year or so window to minimise production costs and risk, the EVF-M will be just another one of these design changes. I do agree though that if the built in EVF concept really takes off then we could see them take a different direction in the future. The M12 is likely in design stage already though so we may not see the effect of this anytime soon.

Edited April 5 by costa43

[Besprosvet]

15 minutes ago, costa43 said:

I just hope the standard model does not become an EVF model!

I don't think it's the case, they still sell film cameras. There will be a market, forever, for people liking an M10-R like camera, the fact that on the used market goes roughly for the same price of the M11 says a lot.

[Besprosvet]

3 minutes ago, costa43 said:

The M12 is likely in design stage already though so we may not see the effect of this anytime soon.

In another topic here on the forum it seems that the M11 is slowly going out of production. We may see the M12 sooner than later, and I hope it's going to be a freeze free camera...

Edited April 5 by Besprosvet

[costa43]

34 minutes ago, Besprosvet said:

In another topic here on the forum it seems that the M11 is slowly going out of production. We may see the M12 sooner than later, and I hope it's going to be a freeze free camera...

I don’t think so. I believe that is just the base model being discontinued. The other variants are still in production. Leica do this in each generation. Nothing new. Maybe I’m way off the mark and the 100 year anniversary will surprise us but I reckon we will have to wait a couple more years for the next gen. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, costa43 said:

Not sure it will be that black and white. There are too many people who want the rangefinder and want the camera to be as advanced as possible still. Leica had the opportunity with a D model to offer a stripped back option but they messed it up imo and made it too similar to the standard range just sans screen. I think the EVF model moving forward will be based on the standard model. I just hope the standard model does not become an EVF model! 
 

One of my biggest issues with the M11p/M10r are the wake from sleep times. It’s weird that my M8/M9 were so much more usable here. I hope they really improve on this in the next model.

Camera Standby 30 min, Display Standby 30 sec solves it for me. I switch the camera off when I know that I will not use it for a while.The displays use most of the battery.

[costa43]

Just now, SrMi said:

Camera Standby 30 min, Display Standby 30 sec solves it for me. I switch the camera off when I know that I will not use it for a while.The displays use most of the battery.

How do you find the battery life on the M11 with it on 30min standby?  Does it get you through a full day of shooting? 

[JNK100]

On 3/1/2025 at 1:20 PM, T25UFO said:

Now I know why the EVF M Rumoured thread has stalled - it's going to be replaced by this 😂 and we'll have another pointless 850 comments in the next two weeks!  In the meantime, I'll just carry on taking photos . . .

Yes, I agree. I will wait for the M17 with AI auto-composition in early Sept. 2052.

[SrMi]

52 minutes ago, costa43 said:

How do you find the battery life on the M11 with it on 30min standby?  Does it get you through a full day of shooting? 

Yes, full day of shooting when traveling (travel photography).

[Smogg]

I would like to see the screen size increased to 3.2 inches and all the bugs fixed in the new version. There are a few bugs at the moment: 1. Automatic white balance (magenta cast). 2. Auto-ISO minimum shutter speed has an error of 1/3 stop. 3. The shutter button in Continuous Hi mode has a life of its own and sometimes continues to take pictures even after I release it. 4. Some people have problems with the built-in memory.

[ksrhee]

Here we go again.  If the latest release of the Fuji-GFX100RF is any indication, the market seems to be leaning toward single-lens portable cameras.  Fuji hasn't updated their XF-pro line for many years.  My pronostication is that Leica will not introduce any interchangeable Q or EVF-M in the foreseeable future.  If anything, I would love to see the Leica Q with a smaller lens (pancake lens?), but I'm not betting on that.  The Leica 100 will probably celebrate the classic Leica camera if anything is new.  Think about the reintroduction of their classic line lenses.   

[IkarusJohn]

My hope remains that the M12 is a refinement of the M mount camera, based around the OVF, with all the rubbish removed. Okay, a bit harsh, but is the M system really for photographers who need in camera cropping …

I appreciate that many here liked the extra stuff the M(240) had to offer, and the add-ons with the M11, but to my mind they were not needed and they distracted from the M’s unique selling point - an OVF system, based around the 28 - 90mm focal length range. I have no issue with an evf variant, I love my M10-D and my Monochrom. But every time I see Leica include things that appear to be competing with Sony & Fuji, I shudder.  A good starting point might be for future digital M cameras to produce dng files only - optimised for M lenses and of the best quality possible (Hasselblad colour science would be something to aim at).

The SL system is in the AF, IBIS, video etc space, and much as I like my SL(601), I suspect the others do it better and will continue to do so.

[Herr Barnack]

8 hours ago, ksrhee said:

Here we go again.  If the latest release of the Fuji-GFX100RF is any indication, the market seems to be leaning toward single-lens portable cameras.  Fuji hasn't updated their XF-pro line for many years.  My pronostication is that Leica will not introduce any interchangeable Q or EVF-M in the foreseeable future.  If anything, I would love to see the Leica Q with a smaller lens (pancake lens?), but I'm not betting on that.  The Leica 100 will probably celebrate the classic Leica camera if anything is new.  Think about the reintroduction of their classic line lenses.   

Given the riotous popularity of the Q cameras, the market appears to have been leaning that direction since June of 2015.

As for the M12, I would like to see it have more in common with the M10 than the M11 - in other words, less unnecessary electronic hoopla, more reliability.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[dante]

What else do people really want other than video or hybrid viewfinders that will spook the faithful? How about some practical things:

Functional

If the weird interference banding I am seeing with the M11M under LED lighting is normal, I would like to see that resolved. Really not acceptable for a low-light camera where you would not detect this unless you chimped every shot.

Get rid of the ISO dial. It's ugly, adds an additional weather penetration point, costs money, and you don't need this with the menu-of-icons. If you can't figure out what to put there, maybe return to the M8's "remaining exposure" LCD counter or a battery indicator.

Move the USB-C port to the side so that the camera can charge upright sitting on a flat surface. Better yet, put a USB-C port in the battery itself for charging off-camera.

Install an ultrasonic sensor dust cleaner.

Easy and incremental

Anodized finishes, not silver paint.

No new body profiles or battery sizes. Stick with the body dimensions and battery shape of the M11.

Stop creating the "regular" versus "-P" variants. Nobody likes red dots, small buffers, scratch-prone LCDs, or 64Gb internal storage.

Make shutter operation and perspective control available from the icon screen. Make that screen more customizable.

Make a native-size eyepiece magnifier. A $100 slotted ring adapter, years into a new eyepiece size, seems a bit extra.

Exposure metadata in Fotos