M12 wishlist

[IkarusJohn]

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56 minutes ago, SrMi said:

X2D's leaf shutter does open-close-open-close-open. Doesn't it?

P2P's analysis determined that ISO 50 is outside the normal analog range.

No.  It closes, then opens.  The end of the exposure is electronic.

Correction - the start of the exposure is off the sensor, with the exposure ending with the leaff shutter (a bit like electronic first shutter curtain).  See Jim Kasson for the effect of this at certain shutter speeds.  Also, it’s a leaf shutter, not a focal plane shutter - my 38v is (was) incredibly quiet.

Edited April 22, 2024 by IkarusJohn

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[sometimesmaybe]

i just read through the Wishlist and summarised the design specs

ladies and gentlemen, i give you the leica m12

 

[Jeff S]

46 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

No.  It closes, then opens.  The end of the exposure is electronic.

Correction - the start of the exposure is off the sensor, with the exposure ending with the leaff shutter (a bit like electronic first shutter curtain).  See Jim Kasson for the effect of this at certain shutter speeds.  Also, it’s a leaf shutter, not a focal plane shutter - my 38v is (was) incredibly quiet.

The mathphotographer describes the sequence as open-close-open-close-open.

(See from about 2:15 to 3:15)

 

 

Jeff

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

No.  It closes, then opens.  The end of the exposure is electronic.

Correction - the start of the exposure is off the sensor, with the exposure ending with the leaff shutter (a bit like electronic first shutter curtain).  See Jim Kasson for the effect of this at certain shutter speeds.  Also, it’s a leaf shutter, not a focal plane shutter - my 38v is (was) incredibly quiet.

Yes. The sensor is reset electronically (like EFCS), closes, and then opens. Yes, 38v is quiet, but 90v is much less so.

P.S.: same as on Q3.

Edited April 22, 2024 by SrMi

[SrMi]

12 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The mathphotographer describes the sequence as open-close-open-close-open.

That is not what happens on mine.

[IkarusJohn]

34 minutes ago, SrMi said:

That is not what happens on mine.

You’re special. 😂

Actually, weighing Jim Kasson against all other comers, my money is on Jim. Not that it really matters. 

Back on topic, with the M, if it has the sensor live, then it will be open-close-expose-close-open. Seems like a terrible idea, but short of putting the meter back into the mount or a global shutter, we don’t really have any other options. 
 

[Jeff S]

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45 minutes ago, SrMi said:

That is not what happens on mine.

It’s what you wrote in post #199.

Jeff

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

You’re special. 😂

And so are you 😁. I wrote that my X2D does not open-close-open-close-open (#203) but instead does open-close-open. If I understand your post #201, that is what you wrote as well.

[SrMi]

Just now, Jeff S said:

It’s what you wrote in post #199.

Jeff

I was wrong, @IkarusJohn corrected me and I checked it on my camera. See post #204. 
 

[Jeff S]

15 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I was wrong, @IkarusJohn corrected me and I checked it on my camera. See post #204. 
 

Unless XCD lenses work differently on the X1DII, it’s unusual that the mathphotographer is off base technically.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

25 minutes ago, SrMi said:

And so are you 😁. I wrote that my X2D does not open-close-open-close-open (#203) but instead does open-close-open. If I understand your post #201, that is what you wrote as well.

Yeah. It’s interesting in the article I linked that you need to be careful with shutter speeds. If it’s too fast, the leaf shutter blades will give you bokeh balls with bits cut off them. Haven’t struck this yet, as my only XCD lens (the 38v) is back in Gothenberg. 

I do wonder how far away a global shutter is for stills cameras. Some have made claims (Nikon?), but my understanding is it’s a long way off. The readout time of the X2D is nowhere near fast enough for anything but static subjects.  As I understand it, the tech in the M11 and X2D cameras is the same (no source - same readout, relative to sensor size?).

I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but ditching that little sensor in the throat of the mount is a terrible idea. Decisive for me, actually. 

[SrMi]

48 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Unless XCD lenses work differently on the X1DII, it’s unusual that the mathphotographer is off base technically.

Jeff

What he described is how leaf shutters work with film. I also expected it to work that way, but my 45p and 90v did not (907x with CFV100c).

[Herman Zhang]

10 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

This sounds like three or four different cameras tipped into a blender then compressed into an M shape, what could possibly go wrong?.............Sorry, no offense meant but there's nothing on that list that floats my M wish-list boat, sinks it more like. Leica please just de-complicate the M so it can work simply as it's forebears used to, only release new versions when the firmware is well sorted and oh yes not before time fix customer service please. Not too much to ask, what?

I mean at least it should have instant startup. Hopefully with the frameline illumination window

[romaing]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:07 PM, charlesphoto99 said:

Photographers have been shooting low level shots for many decades with cameras of all types without the need for a screen. Use a wider angle lens, know your angles, prefocus, hold the camera down to floor level, tilt it to where you need it, and shoot. With digital one gets instant feedback, but used to do this all the time with film cameras. Now we're just lazy. 

"Why use a car when you can walk?"

-> now we are just lazy

[Vip]

Hybrid viewfinder like in Fuji so easier to use lens like 16/21, or macro 

[SNJ Ops]

On 4/23/2024 at 1:27 AM, IkarusJohn said:

Yeah. It’s interesting in the article I linked that you need to be careful with shutter speeds. If it’s too fast, the leaf shutter blades will give you bokeh balls with bits cut off them. Haven’t struck this yet, as my only XCD lens (the 38v) is back in Gothenberg. 

I do wonder how far away a global shutter is for stills cameras. Some have made claims (Nikon?), but my understanding is it’s a long way off. The readout time of the X2D is nowhere near fast enough for anything but static subjects.  As I understand it, the tech in the M11 and X2D cameras is the same (no source - same readout, relative to sensor size?).

I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but ditching that little sensor in the throat of the mount is a terrible idea. Decisive for me, actually. 

The Sony A9III has a global shutter, was announced late last year and is available now to buy. Has a 24mp FF sensor.

[charlesphoto99]

35 minutes ago, SNJ Ops said:

The Sony A9III has a global shutter, was announced late last year and is available now to buy. Has a 24mp FF sensor.

Read up about the loss of a lower base iso and dynamic range with the global shutter, less flexibility in post with RAW files, noisier high iso's. It would be a step backwards for Leica, and really make no sense in a camera that has no autofocus lenses. The Sony is an extreme sports machine and that's about it. 

[Pelu2010]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:12 AM, Antonio Russell said:

- Weather sealing and improved shutter sound.

- Lower price.

- Improved viewfinder glass that doesnt require cleaning so often.

- Make rear screen flush with camera body.

- Do testing prior to release and ensure the camera is bug free.

As far as I know the camera was tested, but as it’s only a company which limited resources you can’t test every possible combination. 

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[Pelu2010]

Hey, 

I would appreciate if we could record the signal of the camera with an external recorder. Just open the usbc port to hdmi or give us such a port. 

[Strmbrg]

Not more of anything, i would say. Rather much less of everything.
I don't like choices, I prefer well-thought functions so i don't have to chose. A little like it once was. When it was really good i.e.

One light-metering method, no multi-shot-options at all, just single. No live view. Re-introduce the opto-mechanical original Visoflex for macro. 🙂

No, I don't want to go so far as back to film. Film is expensive, it restricts my shooting to "safe" shots. Both because of cost and because of a much more limited number of frames to get. At least if I don't carry a large bag with film with me.