The future of the SL system and why there is no roadmap for lenses

[BLeventhal]

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Anyone who is choosing to use Leica for challenging wildlife and sports have chosen the wrong system. The Leica SL system is well-suited to a lot of photography, but action is not one of them. Excellent corner sharpness is irrelevant if the subject cannot be followed with accuracy. 

I happen to have an SL2 and SL2-S as well as the 14-24, 24-70, and 100-400. While I can make the occasional wildlife image with this gear, I rely on my Nikon Z system and the amazingly sharp and well-corrected 400mm f2.8Z w/ built in TC when I need/want my best gear for capturing wildlife subjects. My Leica kit is well suited to landscape and nature abstracts, and that is how I use it.

bruce

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[jaapv]

Quote

 

Anyone who is choosing to use Leica for challenging wildlife and sports have chosen the wrong system.

That will come as a big surprise to the (excellent) wildlife photographers on this forum... 

[BLeventhal]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

That will come as a big surprise to the (excellent) wildlife photographers on this forum... 

I am not saying that you can't shoot wildlife with the Leica SL system, I am just saying that there are better options. Leica has put their lens design energy into making best in class optics between 21mm and 90mm. While the 90-280 is a fine lens, the absence of a long and fast prime puts the system at a disadvantage. Having spent years making wildlife images, a lifetime of local and foreign exploration, and a willingness to throw money at resolving problems like sticky eye detection and black-out free shooting, I am being very frank and honest when I say there is a very big difference between the capabilities of other cameras.

Being honest about one's gear does not negate my own enjoyment of my SL kit, nor does it denigrate the accomplishments of those that have made their Leica kit work. However, as someone who shoots both (SL2/SL2-S/14-24 VE/24-70 VE/ 100-400 VE  as well as Z9/Z8/24-120/100-400S/400 2.8TC), I am bringing my Nikon gear if I have a rare opportunity or going on a wildlife specific trip.

regards,

bruce

[Stuart Richardson]

Generally, talented people know themselves what works best for them, regardless of what spec sheets say. I know that I take better photos with my 20 year old wooden box camera than I do with the SL2. I also much preferred the S006 to the S3, no matter how many people told me how much "better" it was. Better is always going to be subjective.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[jaapv]

6 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

I am not saying that you can't shoot wildlife with the Leica SL system, I am just saying that there are better options. Leica has put their lens design energy into making best in class optics between 21mm and 90mm. While the 90-280 is a fine lens, the absence of a long and fast prime puts the system at a disadvantage. Having spent years making wildlife images, a lifetime of local and foreign exploration, and a willingness to throw money at resolving problems like sticky eye detection and black-out free shooting, I am being very frank and honest when I say there is a very big difference between the capabilities of other cameras.

Being honest about one's gear does not negate my own enjoyment of my SL kit, nor does it denigrate the accomplishments of those that have made their Leica kit work. However, as someone who shoots both (SL2/SL2-S/14-24 VE/24-70 VE/ 100-400 VE  as well as Z9/Z8/24-120/100-400S/400 2.8TC), I am bringing my Nikon gear if I have a rare opportunity or going on a wildlife specific trip.

regards,

bruce

As I said, that is wholly personal. I hated the Nikon system that you like. Specifications and reviews do not come into it. At best they will point you in the direction to acquire the system that fits you personally. As a veteran of well more than thirty wildlife photography trips into Africa using gear like Leica M cameras with Telyts and Noflexars on M cameras with mechanical and electronic Visoflexes,T cameras  with Apo-Telyts,  High-end Canon sets and medium format, I found that the gear used made little impact on my results. The stuff I saw from people I met on the way who came with shiny one-week old Canikon and 600 mm sewage pipe lenses were boring one-millionth sleeping Lion shots at best which they managed to get after a minutes long struggle with their camera to use a game- disturbing machinegun rattle. I and other experienced photographers were usually pointing our binoculars in various other directions. 
Disclosure: my standard gear is now Leica SL601, LUMIX R5, LUMIX R5ii, Sigma 28-70,70-200,150-600 1.4x. My beloved 105-280R with extenders regretfully has to stay at home for weight reasons. 
Rely on skill, do not get hung up on gear. 

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

(...)
Rely on skill, do not get hung up on gear. 

Slowly but surely I understand why in the M-Forum so many people cry for EVF, AF and more ... Remember: The red point stuff should not be a status symbol, but a workhorse ...

[frame-it]

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40 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Rely on skill, do not get hung up on gear. 

100% correct, except many people nowadays rely on AutoFocus, AutoISO, Auto-WB, then they complain about missed focus, image noise, and weird colors

 

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, BLeventhal said:

the absence of a long and fast prime puts the system at a disadvantage.

What about the Sigma 500?  

[BLeventhal]

12 hours ago, jaapv said:

As I said, that is wholly personal. I hated the Nikon system that you like. Specifications and reviews do not come into it. At best they will point you in the direction to acquire the system that fits you personally. As a veteran of well more than thirty wildlife photography trips into Africa using gear like Leica M cameras with Telyts and Noflexars on M cameras with mechanical and electronic Visoflexes,T cameras  with Apo-Telyts,  High-end Canon sets and medium format, I found that the gear used made little impact on my results. The stuff I saw from people I met on the way who came with shiny one-week old Canikon and 600 mm sewage pipe lenses were boring one-millionth sleeping Lion shots at best which they managed to get after a minutes long struggle with their camera to use a game- disturbing machinegun rattle. I and other experienced photographers were usually pointing our binoculars in various other directions. 
Disclosure: my standard gear is now Leica SL601, LUMIX R5, LUMIX R5ii, Sigma 28-70,70-200,150-600 1.4x. My beloved 105-280R with extenders regretfully has to stay at home for weight reasons. 
Rely on skill, do not get hung up on gear. 

I'm not sure how I should take this... a scolding? patronizing? defensiveness? I agree with the premise that the gear one uses is wholly personal. I also agree that there are a lot of mediocre photographers using very expensive equipment. In fact, one might argue that I fit in that category, as quality photography is based on the eye and brain of the viewer and not the shooter. However, before you judge... I'd ask that you visit my website, look at my galleries, as well as my blogs. 

There is no question that some gear does more of the work for you, the SL system does a lot more work than the M or R system. Prior to my life in digital, I shot Contax RTS bodies with the 300 f4 Tele-Tessar, so I have a history with choosing optics over flash. I stayed with Contax and Pentax 645's while Canon EOS, Minotal Maxxim, and Nikon AF moved on. I have been a writer for photo magazines, sold work through stock, and continue to do galleries. I teach biology, photography, and ways to fuse the two... I am no stranger to this field. I am, however, new to the Leica SL ecosystem. I am learning to use the gear and finding ways to add it to my workflow. Having just returned from a 7 hour outing that began with photographing pigeon guillemots flying to and from a nesting cliff, followed by 90 minutes with 3 owlets and their mother, and ending with landscapes along the beach, I managed to find ways to use the Leicas and the Nikons. With that said, the Leica gear could not keep up with the guillemots while the Nikon could.

To each their own... I'm not interested in picking a fight, just interested in learning how to make the most of what I use.

Should you care... my website is: http://bruceleventhal.com

 

[jrp]

8 hours ago, jaapv said:

What about the Sigma 500?  

I tested one out at the shop and was very tempted.  Fortunately, or unfortunately, I don't use lenses over 400+mm enough to justify it. But it was very portable, something that Sigma seems to get; not everyone drives (https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/7758614604/sigma-ceo-talks-market-trends-the-challenge-of-innovation-and-the-future-for-aps-c). (It's not fast, however, and that is it's weakness: if you are prepared to put up with f5.6 for landscape shooting, a long zoom will be preferable, if slightly heavier.)

The SL system is great for things that don't move too much; the shooting experience is enjoyable.  But it is bulky / heavy.  Fortunately, there are several manufacturers throwing spaghetti at the wall.  I like the 100mm Panasonic and they now offer https://www.ephotozine.com/article/panasonic-lumix-s-28-200mm-f-4-7-1-ois-macro-lens-review-36878 for walkabout, as a counterpoint to the Leica lenses, which offer stellar performance, but are bulky and heavy.

[jaapv]

The long zooms by Sigma are 6.3  at full extension. the 28-200 has a moderate image quality, but good for the lens type and price. The 70-200 2.8 has it all. Amazing image quality, the fastest and most accurate AF of all longer Sigmas-especially on the S5ii which, as an aside, beats the SL3 hands down in that respect if forum posts are to be believed , and a wide aperture. 

[Pelu2010]

Hey, 

I miss a true L Macro > with electronic stacking ability like a 90 mm or 60 mm 

And for architecture a Tilt Shift lens with a S Lens adapted to a L mount.