Leica SL3 problems

[LocalHero1953]

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On 5/9/2024 at 6:52 AM, Jim B said:

Umm, they actually are designed for professionals. If you take into consideration the metal build quality, the weather sealing, and the image quality. Decades of professional and iconic work have been created using Leica cameras. 

Leica knows its main market - rich amateurs - and designs accordingly. Marketing fluff that talks about professionals shooting with them is just that.
None of which is to suggest that professionals do not appreciate, buy and use them.

[Mikko Kankainen]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

if there is a problem it has to be addressed, but I think people already said it was user error, where they pulled the battery when it was still transferring to the card.

I take longer to clear a bigger buffer now with the SL3. I see it even when the camera is connected to a Capture One tethering and use the CF Express card, after pausing shooting photos keep coming in for a min or more.

There is almost no slowdown if you tether without the card, but if you pull power or cable the rest images will be lost.

No. Not an user error. Like me I lost pictures from about an hour of shoot and I can still reproduce the case that I take pictures and pictures are written in card, no red light and I can press play to watch images. Then I put camera to suspend and remove battery at the right time and camera messes with timecodes or images are just lost.

These files are not so much bigger in size+card is faster. And I have used high MP cameras for years like many other.

And I trust to myself when there is something wrong, you just know it that this is not like it's suppose to be. No user error, camera is messing around.

But I can use SL3 to some work, I have a battery grip and I never remove battery from the camera again. And I use it to real estate etc that I can redo if needed. No issues again, but that one time that I lost images was more than enough. My advice: Don't use suspend and don't remove battery from the camera in the middle of a shoot.

[Photoworks]

5 minutes ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

No. Not an user error. Like me I lost pictures from about an hour of shoot and I can still reproduce the case that I take pictures and pictures are written in card, no red light and I can press play to watch images. Then I put camera to suspend and remove battery at the right time and camera messes with timecodes or images are just lost.

These files are not so much bigger in size+card is faster. And I have used high MP cameras for years like many other.

And I trust to myself when there is something wrong, you just know it that this is not like it's suppose to be. No user error, camera is messing around.

But I can use SL3 to some work, I have a battery grip and I never remove battery from the camera again. And I use it to real estate etc that I can redo if needed. No issues again, but that one time that I lost images was more than enough. My advice: Don't use suspend and don't remove battery from the camera in the middle of a shoot.

Can I ask what card are you using? and did you check on the card firmware update? I had to update my camera for compatibility. in essence, they are SSD controllers.

[Mikko Kankainen]

What card firmware update?

Camera was updated before this to newest ff. 
Sd=Sony tough
Cf=Agfa photo (who ever is the manufacture)

But I can use whatever card I want, camera must work with every brand. If not then Leica must send some bulletin or fix this issue. To me this sound like running away from responsibility. 
 

And when I reproduced the bug I did not use cf card. Only sd. 

Edit:
Yes this will be fixed in future I know. But for some damage is done already and new cases will come and only a fraction of users report it here. This can even mean end of a career if you loose some wedding photos and the news spreads in social media. And about not using Sandisk, how are photographers suppose to know this. This peace of information was in one post on page 14, a part of an email to some user from Leica. Leica should warn ASAP if this really is a thing that they cannot make their camera to work with some brand. We are not alpha users but end users.

Edited May 11, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

What card firmware update?

Camera was updated before this to newest ff. 
Sd=Sony tough
Cf=Agfa photo (who ever is the manufacture)

But I can use whatever card I want, camera must work with every brand. If not then Leica must send some bulletin or fix this issue. To me this sound like running away from responsibility. 
 

And when I reproduced the bug I did not use cf card. Only sd. 

Edit:
Yes this will be fixed in future I know. But for some damage is done already and new cases will come and only a fraction of users report it here. This can even mean end of a career if you loose some wedding photos and the news spreads in social media. And about not using Sandisk, how are photographers suppose to know this. This peace of information was in one post on page 14, a part of an email to some user from Leica. Leica should warn ASAP if this really is a thing that they cannot make their camera to work with some brand. We are not alpha users but end users.

Did you check that your Sony Tough card is not affected by the recall?

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/memory-cards-sd-cards/sf-g128t/articles/00246463

[Mikko Kankainen]

No I did not. Fast look: video use issue. But it’s a recall, something I would like Leica also consider if they have an issue…

And I can make pictures to get deleted with other brands also.  
 

I have used Sony cards over a year with other cameras, no issue. 
Imho this has nothing to do with card brands, just bad software from Leica. 
 

edit: there is already a thread about this issue, maybe continue there. There is also more information, now it’s dual information. 
Issue is real and hoping a fix soon. 

Edited May 11, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[Photoworks]

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20 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

What card firmware update?

Camera was updated before this to newest ff. 
Sd=Sony tough
Cf=Agfa photo (who ever is the manufacture)

My cards already had Updates, more compatibility with cameras, less power consumption, and improved speeds.

Agfa has been out of business for 20 years. AgfaPhoto sells relabeled products by Lupus, but they don't make them.

20 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

But I can use whatever card I want, camera must work with every brand. If not then Leica must send some bulletin or fix this issue. To me this sound like running away from responsibility. 

If every card is made the same, I would agree, but I think we all know that is not the case.

 

20 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

And when I reproduced the bug I did not use cf card. Only sd. 

I agree it can be a problem, if you can reproduce it, I would like to see a video and I will try the same on my end and get on the Leica team to make a fix quickly.

 

19 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

just bad software from Leica. 

unfortunately, they are slow to respond with concerns, I already regularly submit bugs to the Leica developers.

Losing data should ring a red flashing light and sirens in the company.

[Photoworks]

21 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

But I can use whatever card I want, camera must work with every brand. If not then Leica must send some bulletin or fix this issue. To me this sound like running away from responsibility. 

other companies test cards on their camera and report which one is compatible. In my experience, they don't test every card, just the most popular.

this is from canon

 

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[kkcsm]

49 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

other companies test cards on their camera and report which one is compatible. In my experience, they don't test every card, just the most popular.

this is from canon

This appears to be related to write speed relative to high bandwidth video?  Seems fundamentally different from losing stills long after flashing light.

IIRC, Leica has had issues in past with random SD related issues and incompatible cards (M240 in particular I think?).

As much as I love the brand, I think criticism is warranted.

Edited May 12, 2024 by kkcsm

[Photoworks]

13 minutes ago, kkcsm said:

This appears to be related to write speed relative to high bandwidth video?  Seems fundamentally different from losing stills long after flashing light.

IIRC, Leica has had issues in past with random SD related issues and incompatible cards (M240 in particular I think?).

As much as I love the brand, I think criticism is warranted.

The more I read about these cards, the more I think it is Wild West out there with claims of compatibility and Speed.

Some manufacturing tests show how some cards don't work on Canon, and they work on Nikon. Not only a speed test but also they don't work at all.

For a long time, I got Sandisk cards, but not they are WesternDigital they are becoming unreliable and slow. 
SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Sequential Write Performance Up to 1400MB/s, real test is 400MB/s

other cards are even worse.

Good results look to be PERGEAR CFE-B Prime CFexpress Type-B Memory Card(1TB) from 2023, and Angelbird 1TB

 

[PeterBoyadjian]

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[frame-it]

45 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

The more I read about these cards, the more I think it is Wild West out there with claims of compatibility and Speed.

Some manufacturing tests show how some cards don't work on Canon, and they work on Nikon. Not only a speed test but also they don't work at all.

For a long time, I got Sandisk cards, but not they are WesternDigital they are becoming unreliable and slow. 
SanDisk 512GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Sequential Write Performance Up to 1400MB/s, real test is 400MB/s

other cards are even worse.

Good results look to be PERGEAR CFE-B Prime CFexpress Type-B Memory Card(1TB) from 2023, and Angelbird 1TB

 

did you use Crystal Disk Mark to test the real speed?

[Mikko Kankainen]

Today two corrupted files with M11. But I’m use to it. No mather what brand, I tried Sony, Sandisk, Lexar. Also internal memory says it’s full when it’s not. Second unit, same with both. 
 

Only with Leicas, I also use Canon all the time, never ever any problems, just put whatever card and go shooting. 
 

This is a issue, I still like Leica, just have to know this. SL2s is a workhorse that I also use, never any problems. 
 

And about SL3 losing photos. Why it looses them from both cards? I use backup mode always. So it’s clearly an internal problem with camera and not with a card. 

Edited May 12, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[Mikko Kankainen]

2 hours ago, Photoworks said:

I agree it can be a problem, if you can reproduce it, I would like to see a video and I will try the same on my end and get on the Leica team to make a fix quickly.

I tried to make a video but I would need an assistant. But how it goes:

1. Take let say 10 photos in your house of 3 things. I took A: fireplace B: piano C daughter
2. Put camera to suspend (dont turn off). Wait until top screen goes blank=images written and camera is in sleep. 
3. Take battery out

Keep doing that, it took my 5. attempt to succeed. I saw earlier when using playback that I had pictures from fireplace, piano, daughter. But fireplace and daughter was missing (if I remember wich were but you get the point) when I turned camera back on after battery was taken out. And images were not in card when watching in computer. I took battery out right after screen went blank when entering suspend.

Edited May 12, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

[Photoworks]

26 minutes ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Keep doing that, it took my 5. attempt to succeed. I saw earlier when using playback that I had pictures from fireplace, piano, daughter. But fireplace and daughter was missing (if I remember wich were but you get the point) when I turned camera back on after battery was taken out. And images were not in card when watching in computer. I took battery out right after screen went blank when entering suspend.

I will try it

sounds like the images are not saved before the camera sleeps.

[SrMi]

23 minutes ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

I tried to make a video but I would need an assistant. But how it goes:

1. Take let say 10 photos in your house of 3 things. I took A: fireplace B: piano C daughter
2. Put camera to suspend (dont turn off). Wait until top screen goes blank=images written and camera is in sleep. 
3. Take battery out

Keep doing that, it took my 5. attempt to succeed. I saw earlier when using playback that I had pictures from fireplace, piano, daughter. But fireplace and daughter was missing (if I remember wich were but you get the point) when I turned camera back on after battery was taken out. And images were not in card when watching in computer. I took battery out right after screen went blank when entering suspend.

Was the status LED off when you removed the battery? Have you experienced image loss if the battery was changed when the camera was turned off (not in suspend mode)? 

[Mikko Kankainen]

Led is off. And photos were in card and I lost photos from an hour period so this is not the problem. 
Never lost when shutdown. Only one case in pro work and the case was suspend-> wait -> battery out. 

[Jim B]

9 hours ago, Mikko Kankainen said:

Led is off. And photos were in card and I lost photos from an hour period so this is not the problem. 
Never lost when shutdown. Only one case in pro work and the case was suspend-> wait -> battery out. 

Hi Mikko,

I’m trying to follow along here but it does seems a little confusing. Why would you take a battery out of the camera when it is in suspend mode?  This would not be proper operation. Only removed the battery when the camera is completely off. 
 

If you are shooting 30 large dngs, give the camera the time it needs to write the data to the card. If need be verified the images in playback and once confirmed they are there, then shut the camera off completely before changing a battery.  And this should help you.  Always write to two cards for backup. 

[Mikko Kankainen]

I quess you did not read my story completely. 

1. I use dual backup, it does not help in this case
2. Pictures are written to the card (they are not that large) (lost photos for about an hour of shooting). And verified, they were playable in camera.
3. How do you know if it's suspended or not. And it should not loose picture even if it's on and I remove battery if it's written images to the card(s). And in longer story I told that this happened to my hired photographer who was new to SL3, he is SL2 using pro photographer. We took pictures next to each other. We took about 5000 photos in a evening so we had to change battery few times. 

And this was only my story, I dont know if all the cases are similar. 

One could say that my case was an user error, I dont think it was. Yes manual say turn camera off, and I should have told to another photographer that you must keep 1,5sec pressing the button, one press is not enough. He just watched that camera shuts down (screen goes blank etc). 
Leica opened a ticket and they consider this as a bug and so do I. Camera should never loose images that were written to the card. Now I use multigtip and only change via USB, so I never remove battery.

Edited May 13, 2024 by Mikko Kankainen

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[jaapv]

Even if it were user error a camera should never, ever, spontaneously lose images after they have been saved.